Each month the Genesis Shapers meets for one hour to discuss the evolving WordPress landscape and how it relates to the Genesis community.
This September 2020 update on the Genesis shapers is delivered via video (with transcript)!
Check out the September update, presented by David Vogelpohl and Carrie Dils, below.
If you missed it, the August update can be found in the YouTube channel here.
In this meeting we discussed:
- Genesis origin stories
- How do you describe the spirit and/or nature of the Genesis community when you mention it to others?
- What long time ~bugs do you wish were addressed in Genesis Framework?
- What are your observations or advice regarding the.org version of Genesis Blocks now that it is live?
- What are your observations or advice regarding the.org version of Genesis Custom Blocks now that it is live?
- Do you think Genesis Custom Blocks is helpful for less advanced developers? Why? Why not?
- Is HTML and CSS something that a non-technical Genesis user could do?
- If you were wanting to start using Genesis Custom Blocks for the first time, what would be the most useful “getting started” resource for you? I.e. what would you need to get moving quickly?
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David Vogelpohl: Hello everyone and welcome to the genesis community live cast. This is our Genesis shapers recap episode four sep tember 2020 shapers meeting.
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David Vogelpohl: For those who don’t know me, I’m David Vogel pole. I’m a been a proud member of the genesis community for over eight years. I lead Genesis at WP Engine and I love helping the genesis community get better together with my friends from the shapers
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David Vogelpohl: joining us for this episode or two shapers themselves. I’d like to welcome back to The Shape or recap episode carry deals of carry deals calm. Hi, Carrie.
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Carrie Dils: How do you, how do you. Thanks for having me back.
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David Vogelpohl: So glad to have you back. You were there on our inaugural episode of The shapers recap videos. So, like that. And then also joining us is know why badiola
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Nahuai: Are you
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Nahuai: Thanks for having me.
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David Vogelpohl: Absolutely. Glad to have you here. For those unfamiliar with know why he is a Genesis shaper he runs a business called code decaux Genesis which specializes in training people on Genesis and the Spanish language and I get that right.
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Nahuai: Now, why not right on the spot.
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David Vogelpohl: Nice, nice. And you’re based out of Spain but you help Spanish speaking people in the justice community all around the world. Right.
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Nahuai: Indeed, indeed. Yeah, the Spanish one is really vibrant, but now they this half America is also picking up on is also growing. So it’s really nice to see that also
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David Vogelpohl: Yes, yes, we saw Eduardo’s contribution of translation of Genesis into the Mexican some variant of Spanish
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David Vogelpohl: I was really nice.
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David Vogelpohl: I was wondering, before we get started though, if you could just quickly tell us a little bit about the genesis community.
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David Vogelpohl: Particularly around Kiko
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David Vogelpohl: In Spain, and then Spanish Spanish speaking communities in general.
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Nahuai: Okay, so yeah. In clinical Genesis at the end is like a small platform that when I smile. Now the customer rolling 500 tutorials
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Nahuai: Related with
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Nahuai: WordPress. Yeah.
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Nahuai: And also, again, this is a specific tutorials and yet they be able to share their knowledge there and there is also like as
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Nahuai: I would say a small or midsize community inside that they can ask, and I will probably prepare a tutorial for them also.
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Nahuai: And I think that the they’re the nicest point of the genesis Spanish speaking point was last year when we had the genesis event that was in Genesis bcn for Barcelona, that is a city that
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Nahuai: Is a we are around and we were like, I don’t know, around 60 people. It was really nice to to gather all the people that was interest in WordPress and Genesis
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Nahuai: And yet it separately, that this year is it’s a bit more complicated, too, because we were after ending that one. We were already thinking in the next one, because it was a really nice.
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Nahuai: A gathering of people really similar to WordPress work comes that I love to meet ups that I love to go because they they empty, empty soul always very friendly, very. Yeah. Very nice, very nice people talking about interesting things. So yeah, and I think that this
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Nahuai: Community in Spanish speaking developers. I think it’s not as big as in us, but is picking up at is growing and there’s a lot of people wanting to to learn and to share knowledge. So it’s nice
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David Vogelpohl: Awesome. Well, thanks for doing that know why that know that’s been a big I know we’re going to get to this later with your WordPress Genesis origin story.
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David Vogelpohl: And I know this is a big part of your life and you know others helped you along the way. So it’s so cool to see you also helping
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David Vogelpohl: People learn. I saw the photos from the event event. I was so jealous. I couldn’t go
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David Vogelpohl: Anywhere in the pandemic dies down we can get back to in person.
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Nahuai: Yeah, yeah. We weren’t planning to invite you
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Nahuai: And you and other people to come if it was possible at this was before they pandemic, so that we will pick up after this dice and goes
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David Vogelpohl: I look forward to it.
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David Vogelpohl: All right, well, let’s jump right into the meeting and talk about what was discussed. And we’ll go question by question and talk a little bit about the discussion that took place. So the first question on the agenda was our
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David Vogelpohl: Call to order know why showed up Robin cornet Matthew Cardenas from the product team within Genesis Travis Smith Genesis shaper Ryan Murray if 3200 creative
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David Vogelpohl: Writing such a great guy. And let’s see, we have a bunch of other raised hands are so many different ways people are saying their, their bill Ericsson john Paris from Genesis block Brian Smith from the product team Matt Lawrence from the genesis engineering team Mike hamburger from
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David Vogelpohl: biz budding and we also have and Nita Carter. I know. Sally WP fangirl came in a little bit later. So it’s a good crowd.
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David Vogelpohl: And then in Cary Dale’s yes Carrie was there. Where’s your hand. I don’t see your hand like in my face.
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Carrie Dils: My
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Carrie Dils: My hand might have still been being
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David Vogelpohl: Oh, did you did you show up late to the
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Carrie Dils: Meeting. I was a little late to the party.
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Carrie Dils: Recovering holiday.
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David Vogelpohl: That’s funny. That’s when you think about a zoom meeting those you can kind of like show up late and people don’t really notice as much unless they’re called down
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David Vogelpohl: When does like a video like this. Yes.
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Carrie Dils: Yes, thank you.
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David Vogelpohl: Nick Croft also there, Nick. The geek, author of the book. Genesis explain. He’s also there. That was fun.
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David Vogelpohl: Alright, so our first real question though as what is your Genesis origin story least words wins. If you’ve been following the shapers since the very beginning.
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David Vogelpohl: little over two years now. I guess that we actually asked this question of all the shapers in that very first meeting Carrie. You were there. Right. But no, I you weren’t
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David Vogelpohl: You weren’t a shaper yet you became a shaper after you myself David Decker and
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David Vogelpohl: Wrinkles ram Christopher. Yes. Right. I’m at their word camp Europe in Berlin at the genesis community.
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Nahuai: Times. Yeah.
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David Vogelpohl: One of my favorite word camp moments, actually.
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David Vogelpohl: One of my favorite photos.
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David Vogelpohl: Was actually the four of us. And that was a lot of fun. But we had shapers join since we initially founded it who never actually answered this question. So it was fun to kind of revisit this
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David Vogelpohl: Carry bill was the first one to give a real answer. What did he say
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Carrie Dils: He was a thesis versus JPL.
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Carrie Dils: Gotcha. Yes.
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David Vogelpohl: Traveling in our Wayback Machine there to the great GPO controversy. A lot of folks down Genesis with
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David Vogelpohl: I shared my origin story. And again, least where’s wins. So Bill has three words now, though he acronyms GPS. So I feel like that should count is five words.
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David Vogelpohl: But mine are pat Ramsey made me
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David Vogelpohl: So I have four verses bills three
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Carrie Dils: We are, you know, add an emoji in there. Does that count as a word.
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David Vogelpohl: Know the emoji was the celebration of the four didn’t count as a word.
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David Vogelpohl: You know, Pat. Right.
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Carrie Dils: Oh, yes.
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David Vogelpohl: Yes, yes.
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Carrie Dils: That made me get into accessibility. So
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Carrie Dils: People do things.
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David Vogelpohl: That’s cool. No. Why have you had the opportunity to meet pat Ramsey.
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Nahuai: Not yet. Not yet.
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David Vogelpohl: Okay, he’s with a company called crowd favorite. They’re very successful WordPress agency and Pat actually worked for me and my agency, many years ago.
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David Vogelpohl: And we were trying to choose a framework for the agency to settle on we were kind of battling between two and then pat tells me told me, he said, Just choose Genesis, David, and we chose Genesis. So that was my origin story back in the
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David Vogelpohl: Are you seeing Nick’s comment here know why, what’s he saying here.
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David Vogelpohl: Like you guys started shortly after we
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Nahuai: Are going to Berkeley released did it wrong. Yeah.
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David Vogelpohl: Oh, yeah.
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Nahuai: Wrote a book about all the things I did wrong. I loved
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Nahuai: Me can’t answer. It’s really
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Nahuai: It’s a really cool way to put it. Right. The things that you already did wrong to do just write a book, is it to do.
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Nahuai: To avoid to other people to do the same, the same
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, like it like you didn’t have a book to help you. So you wrote a book to explain all day. That’s what it’s called. Genesis explained, I’m guessing.
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Nahuai: Yeah, I guess.
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David Vogelpohl: He’s kept that up to date. Over time need Eric Carter, who was actually on the episode one of the genesis live cast reboot.
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David Vogelpohl: With Mike little and Sandy Jackson and talking about the contributions of the black community to WordPress in Genesis, but also some of those challenges.
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David Vogelpohl: Her. She told her an origin story actually on that live cast she retails and here she has quite a few words. I don’t think she’s going to win the least word competition, but it’s revolution two themes before Genesis and then when
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David Vogelpohl: Ooh, I don’t know what our team means, but oh I revolution themes switch to studio press so basically version zero of Genesis, as I like to call it was revolution theme.
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David Vogelpohl: And revolution theme was one of the very first themes that really showcased digitized homepage and I like to think of this moment as when people said, Oh, wow. Look, you can build a website with WordPress.
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David Vogelpohl: Of course, people were doing that before but with those digitized home pages, that’s really when we started, I felt to diverge between themes. I’m sorry, websites, if you would, versus blogs. Do you carry. Do you think of those that moment is is that, do you think of there’s something different.
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Carrie Dils: That’s interesting. That was before I even started working with WordPress.
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Carrie Dils: And no
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David Vogelpohl: Yes you looking at it and in the in the rearview mirror pass it know why. What about you, did you are you are you as way back as revolution thing.
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Nahuai: Not that way back. No. No, really, I started using WordPress 2014
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Nahuai: And Genesis, pretty much in the same year. So yeah, I
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David Vogelpohl: Thought he
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David Vogelpohl: Was gonna say your response here though says you went from WordPress implemented to a developer in great part thanks to Genesis. So were you building, like you say implement or help me understand what you meant by that.
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Nahuai: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn’t know if it in English is as well known as senior Spanish implemented miss more like you
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Nahuai: Know it’s built to build sites but and not that much of the technical part. So maybe you are not fighting or doing so much stuff in the PHP and this kind of thing. So building from Cyril you are using more like
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Nahuai: Themes and modifying you seen premium plugins know how they work, but not going deep into the guts of their
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Nahuai: Their architecture and the really nice thing about Genesis and I always split into that way is that if you want. If you’re willing to learn more about PHP and all the hierarchy and everything.
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Nahuai: Genesis, a good starting point, because you will start probably copying pasting a snippet from great sites like curry. So she also others.
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Nahuai: But slowly. If you’re interested, you will pick up. What are you doing with hook. Are you using with functional using so for me this is the
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Nahuai: The, the nicest think of Genesis, because I knew that I wanted to go a bit farther than just built sites. I wanted to tinker a little bit more. So I think that Genesis got that are really, really, really great.
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David Vogelpohl: Good, good, good. Yeah. The we often will say the word implemented to discuss someone who’s building a WordPress site, but not necessarily, you know, modifying the code or creating their own
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Nahuai: Yeah yeah
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David Vogelpohl: I’ve also heard this called is like WordPress builders and stuff like that. And then I asked often talk about it in the lens of like a non technical website builder.
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David Vogelpohl: But really, it’s this notion of or are you modifying or creating code. And I know a lot of people. I’ve heard this story this origin story about people being a developer
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David Vogelpohl: You know, because of WordPress and because of things like Genesis, that kind of help them bridge those gaps.
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David Vogelpohl: Between
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David Vogelpohl: You know, I need to make a website or I want to make a website and then maybe I want to get good at making websites.
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David Vogelpohl: Right. That was interesting to hear Carrie, I don’t see your origin story in here. I feel like he didn’t answer this question. What is your
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David Vogelpohl: Origin Story.
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Carrie Dils: Well,
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Carrie Dils: You might not want me to answer because it’s going to beat your four words.
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David Vogelpohl: Oh well, I think.
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David Vogelpohl: What’s his name bills and the lead with three, even though he
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Carrie Dils: screwed. Well, in that case, I’ll beat bill because
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David Vogelpohl: I think this this origin.
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Carrie Dils: Is bill Ericsson
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David Vogelpohl: Ah, I like it. I like it.
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David Vogelpohl: So nice. Yeah. We talked about that a little bit because I know protect both of you actually a lot of other people’s origin stories with Genesis actually started with the two of you that you started with Bill, what was the thing that bill did that got you started with Genesis carry
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Carrie Dils: Ah,
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Carrie Dils: That’s a great question. I looked at his website and saw that he is basically building an agency, a one man.
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Carrie Dils: One man agency delivering websites and using the genesis framework and once I start kind of digging into his tutorials and I love his code snippet library and just really admired what he was doing. So I tried to follow.
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, he built a very admirable I to even say that word, but like freelance business, if you will. He’s kind of cut out a little squad that all work together and do
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David Vogelpohl: crazy things. But he’s had a really admirable way of going about that for a long time, and he’s local the for me here in Austin. I know you’re now in LA. But you were in Texas, I guess. Around that time, I’m guessing you probably ran into bill here and there.
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Carrie Dils: Yeah, yeah. He had us over
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Carrie Dils: Gosh, I don’t know if it was a Genesis meetup or
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David Vogelpohl: Oh yeah, Georgetown.
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Carrie Dils: See this white folks it is
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, yeah. He’s such a great guy, Robert cornet says she helped the nonprofit move away from a custom inexpensive solution great origin story, but not a winner in the least words competition. So that would be carried bills.
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David Vogelpohl: Let’s see, Sally, Sally, known as at WP fangirl she worked with a friend from her meetup on a Genesis site for a local branch of the United Way.
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David Vogelpohl: That was back when I had mentioned this earlier digitize homepages or revolutionary and before RW D was the thing. Why am I not knowing what our web
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David Vogelpohl: Web design. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Alright, so that would have been a decent amount back. So that was her origin story Travis Smith went to work camp Raleigh in 2011 2012 so this would have just been a couple of years after Genesis was created, or at least officially branded any met Nathan rice.
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David Vogelpohl: Who offer Nathan rice at that time was the lead developer of Genesis, Nathan is actually in engineering management now and has team working on Genesis
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David Vogelpohl: But he offered Genesis as an alternative to thesis and then he offered to help him learn WordPress in Genesis and then in parent that article Travis’s though. I bet he regretted it so I don’t think he regretted it Travis is a great guy, and love having his input here.
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David Vogelpohl: Alright, so the next question we had this one was a nice and easy one. Would you like to join us as a guest for a future shapers recap video at a Genesis logo emoji. It looks like know why you’re one of the ones that put your logo up there.
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David Vogelpohl: It looks like we also have Sally, I will have her on on the future and Nick craft and then I feel like the other shapers were shy because I feel like I see them all the time and all the places so i’m gonna i’m going to revisit this one and
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David Vogelpohl: A little peer pressure, get them on for some future videos.
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David Vogelpohl: Alright, so the next question up we way we think about questions for shapers meetings is we kind of group them we group them into feedback on the products feedback on the Community.
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David Vogelpohl: You know, things that might be fun or interesting. And then, you know, if we really want to get specific on like product oriented questions, we’ll do that too. And so the first question. The next question was actually around this, the community.
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David Vogelpohl: And the reason we asked this question was really kind of help inform us as we think about exposing people to the genesis community.
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David Vogelpohl: As they use Genesis and the various products and just engage with us in general. And so the question is, how do you describe the spirit and or nature of the genesis community when you mentioned it to others and the why you were the very first response. Tell me what you said here.
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Nahuai: Yeah, I said that it’s for me it’s like an extension of WordPress of the awesome WordPress community and meaning in the good sense that
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Nahuai: It’s really easy to go to these kind of meetings or even if it’s online in this slack or whatever block, you can go to Kurtis blow can ask a question.
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Nahuai: And there is always there is always this sense of people trying to help you. So, and they they see you more like a colleague more than a competition. So this yeah i think you you use
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Nahuai: The word kumbaya think around WordPress and and Genesis. I think that is in a good way. It is, yeah. I think that is one of the coolest thing of a Genesis, apart from the great technical part. But yeah, I think that this
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, it’s funny, as I described the WordPress community and then the genesis sub community, if you will, the descriptions are almost interchangeable.
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David Vogelpohl: And in WordPress, we have all these sub communities. I think the woo commerce community is also in that same vein, what we might consider to be, you know, core aligned
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David Vogelpohl: Or, you know, kind of WordPress community aligned course there are other sub communities with different WordPress tools which
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David Vogelpohl: Sometimes are sometimes aren’t kind of in that spirit of the overall WordPress community depending on you know what the sub community is, but I thought that was a good
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David Vogelpohl: way to think about it. And then my next comment was actually from me and after some conversations with Brian Gardner right around the time of the acquisition of studio press by WP Engine
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David Vogelpohl: He really described it as, you know, the genesis community gets better together you know that notion of
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David Vogelpohl: I guess WP fangirl has an origin story here somewhere. Did she remove it. I don’t know where it is now. My goodness, but
00:19:22.770 –> 00:19:24.540
David Vogelpohl: Where people kind of helped you.
00:19:25.530 –> 00:19:28.620
David Vogelpohl: You know, learn how to build websites at all.
00:19:29.220 –> 00:19:44.490
David Vogelpohl: And I think that’s having come from other technical communities where it’s all about being the smartest and not admitting any weakness and how you’re learning and where you are in your process getting shamed at a forums, because you’re not technical enough
00:19:45.780 –> 00:19:57.450
David Vogelpohl: I feel like, you know, it’s like this process of like helping others along. And then when you’re along helping those behind you also make that same kind of progress. I’m guessing how do you think about that Carrie.
00:19:58.350 –> 00:20:08.880
Carrie Dils: I totally agree. I think back to my very early days with WordPress and interacting with women like Andrea Rick and Kim Marcel and
00:20:10.890 –> 00:20:21.150
Carrie Dils: People who had zero obligation to help me, but would readily and happily answer my questions. And it just sort of modeled right out the gate that
00:20:22.500 –> 00:20:33.360
Carrie Dils: Help, help other people along without any expectation of getting something in return, and made me want to then go back and do the same for those behind me.
00:20:34.200 –> 00:20:41.220
David Vogelpohl: Yeah, you never know where the seeds you leave behind will grow into something good. So I think that’s a big part of it for me as well.
00:20:42.120 –> 00:20:52.830
David Vogelpohl: Madison Sadler Madison is on the Genesis product and engineering team. So again, the product and engineering folks join the shapers meetings so they can hear their feedback.
00:20:53.730 –> 00:21:02.130
David Vogelpohl: But his origin story was I sat next to Matt Lawrence and that is an engineering manager that came to WP Engine through the studio press acquisition
00:21:02.970 –> 00:21:08.220
David Vogelpohl: And we’re in WP Engine orientation is a new hiring inspired me to learn the product.
00:21:08.910 –> 00:21:15.030
David Vogelpohl: So that’s something we do at WP Engine actually for new employees is really show them Genesis, get them connected with themes
00:21:15.780 –> 00:21:23.880
David Vogelpohl: If there’s in the engineering group, of course, that goes much further. And depending on what part of engineering, but everybody has that opportunity to kind of learn a little bit
00:21:24.330 –> 00:21:31.290
David Vogelpohl: And experience some of the products themselves. It varies. Of course, our accountants or less verse our support people and so forth.
00:21:32.040 –> 00:21:48.510
David Vogelpohl: But it’s definitely part of our onboarding bill Ericsson says, I guess, Madison is sharing his origin story I guess after the question was asked, second question was asked, but then Bill describes the community as collaborative open and sharing. I think there was a lot of
00:21:49.560 –> 00:21:51.630
David Vogelpohl: Sentiment and agreement around that.
00:21:53.310 –> 00:22:02.040
David Vogelpohl: I liked Sally how she pointed out, people here are colleagues, even though we could technically be described as competitors.
00:22:02.940 –> 00:22:13.080
David Vogelpohl: And I think it’s funny because both of you actually train people in Genesis and your various business interests and I don’t know if you’ve ever really thought that much about it. Again, this
00:22:13.410 –> 00:22:19.110
David Vogelpohl: Notion of like agencies working together, of course providers people providing different technologies. I think that’s
00:22:20.370 –> 00:22:31.290
David Vogelpohl: I think it’s really encouraging and something I don’t see in other places. I see you know people arguing and trying again to be the smartest one in the forum or the smartest one in Slack and not really be working in a collaborative way.
00:22:31.590 –> 00:22:40.800
Carrie Dils: Yeah, great. Sorry, as Robin cornet kind of summed it up nicely that a rising tide lifts all boats and the idea of
00:22:41.640 –> 00:22:43.440
Nahuai: My sentence. Yeah, yeah.
00:22:43.620 –> 00:22:46.530
Carrie Dils: I can’t really even add to it. It’s good, as is.
00:22:47.310 –> 00:22:48.450
David Vogelpohl: All right, well,
00:22:48.510 –> 00:22:57.150
David Vogelpohl: I love the rising tides here and then really, I’m not going to read you know every single one of these that I think you know it’s really that
00:22:57.720 –> 00:23:07.800
David Vogelpohl: The magic part of, you know, someone helped us to know. I’m going to help them and you know better together is, how about Gardner had put it, and so that’s
00:23:08.220 –> 00:23:14.520
David Vogelpohl: Good to hear that feedback and to get that validated as we think about sharing it for others. So if you’re listening or watching
00:23:15.030 –> 00:23:21.030
David Vogelpohl: And you’re thinking about how am I going to describe the genesis community to other people. Just think about that notion of better together.
00:23:21.870 –> 00:23:33.690
David Vogelpohl: That really to me sums it all up. Alright, next question is a product question what long time bug fixes or improvements do you wish were addressed in the genesis framework.
00:23:34.290 –> 00:23:49.200
David Vogelpohl: And Nita was the first one to comment. She says, I think there is a bug with comments. Some site owners need to uncheck the box to display comments and save then check the box again of her comments to display this bond, a thread.
00:23:50.580 –> 00:24:07.200
David Vogelpohl: Basically that was reminder of a previous issue some folks were experiencing with comments. It’s actually already been flagged Nick Jonas, I believe, on the Genesis engineering team has a ticket around this. So that was one thing that Anita had reported
00:24:08.520 –> 00:24:20.490
David Vogelpohl: Ryan Maria, Maria 3200 creative says, Great optimization, out of the box is long overdue. He didn’t actually expand on what he meant by that.
00:24:21.780 –> 00:24:25.440
David Vogelpohl: So I guess we’ll have to get back to Ryan on that one.
00:24:27.330 –> 00:24:42.600
David Vogelpohl: This one was interesting from Robin cornet could be just me, but I remove the entry meta from every post type except posts on every site the wire. I see you shaking your head. Do you have any thoughts on Robins comment here.
00:24:44.760 –> 00:24:50.400
Nahuai: Yeah, yeah, I think it was a good point. But I don’t know if we are
00:24:51.780 –> 00:24:58.440
Nahuai: Two different between the developers. I don’t do that necessarily always
00:24:58.830 –> 00:25:09.420
Nahuai: And I think now is quite easy to do because you can do it. Of course we can. You can do almost anything with a snippet. But now you can also do it as a user plain user
00:25:09.720 –> 00:25:27.540
Nahuai: From the customizer it’s pretty easy to to remove or add the shortcut. So I wouldn’t say that this is a big thing for me, but I understand that, depending on your workbooks, maybe it would help you if it’s by default, turn off in a custom post types.
00:25:28.440 –> 00:25:40.950
David Vogelpohl: Yeah optionality, of course, is something that the engineering and product folks look at really closely, like when is when is there an opinion, something is done automatically or quote, you know, can’t be changed.
00:25:41.400 –> 00:25:46.950
David Vogelpohl: And when is there optionality and it sounds like for Robin. This is important but not necessarily for you.
00:25:47.430 –> 00:25:59.010
David Vogelpohl: And so I think this is good illustration between the notion of default and opinions versus optionality and of course that’s a balancing act. Because sometimes it’s good to have an opinion.
00:25:59.820 –> 00:26:06.060
David Vogelpohl: But not if you’re going to do that necessarily in a way that’s going to you know alienated. A lot of legitimate use cases and developers.
00:26:09.270 –> 00:26:26.640
David Vogelpohl: So then know why you say having a starter theme is discussed in previous meetings, but I guess now it’s better to wait until FFC as well to find soon as your suggestion was having a starter theme. And I know in the sub thread, I was asking you about sample.
00:26:27.930 –> 00:26:33.180
David Vogelpohl: You consider Genesis sample a starter theme. Are you thinking specifically for false identity.
00:26:33.450 –> 00:26:48.540
Nahuai: Yeah, it is. I base. Most of my works on Genesis sample, I cannot disagree, the starter. But I think that you could add some tools to generate like a more specific starter theme like similar to what
00:26:48.990 –> 00:26:58.110
Nahuai: Is done with underscores or that you can just put, like, I don’t know, maybe like perfect says that the names and some things
00:26:58.770 –> 00:27:12.420
Nahuai: For Miss not Donnelly that important. The certification, because I don’t use it but i i understand that maybe one check to to create this aspiration also could be nice but I was in that direction, something
00:27:13.740 –> 00:27:26.190
Nahuai: Nick thermos this player. So us in a previous meeting, like a mock mock up of the hypothetical possible starter theme. And I think it was just in that direction. So,
00:27:27.390 –> 00:27:41.760
Nahuai: I would say the architecture would be Genesis sample, but maybe having a few steps before generating the theme to customize just a bit. The, the starter theme that would be the idea. I was behind
00:27:42.090 –> 00:27:42.810
Nahuai: And I know
00:27:43.290 –> 00:27:54.510
Nahuai: Some people would be interested. That’s why I usually say it in the genesis papers meeting because I have had another colleagues that they really would like to have something like that.
00:27:55.170 –> 00:27:58.860
David Vogelpohl: You said working with Genesis and also people that
00:27:58.920 –> 00:28:08.220
Nahuai: Is not working yet with Genesis, but they would love to have this underscore method to generate identity as a starter thing. Yeah.
00:28:08.580 –> 00:28:19.830
David Vogelpohl: Okay, good suggestion. You know, you’d also mentioned the context of full site editing. I know we’ve talked about that quite a bit here in the genesis blog and prior videos.
00:28:21.270 –> 00:28:29.460
David Vogelpohl: For those unfamiliar full site editing is referring to when the Gutenberg block editor will be extended to the header, the sidebar in the footer.
00:28:29.850 –> 00:28:39.240
David Vogelpohl: Of a website, turning the block editor from a page builder into a Site Builder. When that occurs themes will drastically change.
00:28:40.020 –> 00:28:48.360
David Vogelpohl: The file structure of themes will change the PHP functions you can use within a theme will be restricted where they are today.
00:28:48.780 –> 00:29:00.540
David Vogelpohl: And so what a full site that ending theme looks like will look a lot different than it is today. And so I feel like know why your point here is, you know, these are helpful things for a lot of developers.
00:29:01.590 –> 00:29:18.840
David Vogelpohl: But obviously, you know, kind of. Where do you spend that time and energy in order to deliver that value over time. And the point about FFC is, you know, as the new way of building themes comes out, you know, is that where you kind of narrow in on your starter theme.
00:29:19.890 –> 00:29:26.040
David Vogelpohl: You know efforts, if you would. And I think the answer for us to wise, probably a little bit of both, because
00:29:26.490 –> 00:29:39.540
David Vogelpohl: You know, the way themes are built today non full site editing themes is the way everyone else in WordPress builds theme. So you’re not alone. There’s nothing to run out and try, you have to freak out right now.
00:29:40.230 –> 00:29:50.580
David Vogelpohl: Full site editing will be released in December 2018 as a public beta in WordPress core. So you can try it out. It’s beta mode in December 2018
00:29:51.300 –> 00:29:57.780
David Vogelpohl: Our objective with Genesis is to have our products ready for full site editing when it is in public beta
00:29:58.200 –> 00:30:09.480
David Vogelpohl: So you can leverage shows as blocks Genesis custom blocks as well as FFC false identity specific themes and so these will be different than the themes we use today.
00:30:10.050 –> 00:30:28.890
David Vogelpohl: And the genesis framework, of course, is used to build themes and the way we build teams today. Now, on December 31 2020 I think I said 18 earlier. That’s what it was initially released, but getting very, but in December 2020 will old themes break why or carry
00:30:29.610 –> 00:30:36.930
David Vogelpohl: Nope. No, they won’t break, should you stop building themes. The way you build them today. On January 1 2021
00:30:37.410 –> 00:30:38.790
Nahuai: Nope. Nope. Okay.
00:30:39.480 –> 00:30:40.650
David Vogelpohl: isn’t even out of beta
00:30:41.400 –> 00:30:49.560
David Vogelpohl: Well, you’re getting a break. And I know you can’t guarantee the future but will your themes break a year after FFC is released and WordPress core
00:30:50.250 –> 00:30:51.030
Nahuai: They shouldn’t
00:30:52.260 –> 00:30:52.650
David Vogelpohl: Yes.
00:30:53.070 –> 00:31:00.810
David Vogelpohl: This is the hemming and hawing that comes from predicting the future but WordPress has an excellent tradition for backwards compatibility
00:31:01.350 –> 00:31:13.950
David Vogelpohl: Every single WordPress website on earth today has themes in the old way everyone that will be released tomorrow hasn’t been the old way all the way up until full site editing is released.
00:31:14.340 –> 00:31:22.710
David Vogelpohl: So don’t feel anxious that you’re not doing something you should be doing right now or that your site’s going to break when full site editing is released.
00:31:23.340 –> 00:31:27.750
David Vogelpohl: But at the same time and again to get back to the question, why is like, where do we spending energy
00:31:28.140 –> 00:31:36.450
David Vogelpohl: Well, it’s kind of both because the way of building websites today will still be used for a long time after FFC is released, but of course
00:31:36.780 –> 00:31:42.390
David Vogelpohl: At the same time, I want to make sure that the genesis community and everyone else in WordPress is prepared.
00:31:42.810 –> 00:31:57.480
David Vogelpohl: With themes and plugins and other things that help them win with false identity. So as a long answer that question. But I think, I think your point was, was well taken, which is that these you know better starter theme was specific optimizations around the build.
00:31:58.770 –> 00:32:03.300
David Vogelpohl: Is helpful, but it’s, you know, again, getting back to that question of where do you spend your energy.
00:32:04.410 –> 00:32:10.470
David Vogelpohl: And there was a lot of discussions around build processes Nick Croft brought this up a quite a bit.
00:32:11.760 –> 00:32:18.150
David Vogelpohl: Sally WP fangirl I have to figure out, build processes first before you were ever she worries about them.
00:32:19.110 –> 00:32:29.910
David Vogelpohl: Carry. I don’t know if you could give us a quick walkthrough build process is just for people unfamiliar with that. And I know you don’t know exactly what Nick was talking about, and that can mean a few different things. But if you can give people the just that would be helpful.
00:32:31.050 –> 00:32:45.180
Carrie Dils: Sure, I’m guessing that he means automation in the development flow. So being able to set up task runners and do things like compile your, your CSS partials or
00:32:46.740 –> 00:32:46.950
00:32:48.360 –> 00:32:49.710
Carrie Dils: What’s the word compress
00:32:51.090 –> 00:32:51.420
00:32:52.470 –> 00:32:52.800
David Vogelpohl: Mini
00:32:53.130 –> 00:32:53.670
Nahuai: Mini fight.
00:32:53.730 –> 00:32:54.150
00:32:55.920 –> 00:32:56.310
David Vogelpohl: Or
00:32:57.180 –> 00:33:11.160
Carrie Dils: Things like that, that if you’re using a starter theme minutes the basis of every project than there, you know, some build tools you can add in there that just sort of optimize your, your workflow. That’s, that’s my guess of what he’s talking about it.
00:33:11.340 –> 00:33:16.140
David Vogelpohl: This was kind of maybe less clear for me, but it was like, and I did ask this question, so
00:33:16.680 –> 00:33:31.470
David Vogelpohl: Was it is it documentation and training the Nick things people using Genesis should use or actually modifying the products themselves Carrie, I know you had some thoughts on that. I don’t know if you have thought more about it, or having to share here.
00:33:32.640 –> 00:33:37.050
Carrie Dils: As I think Nick was well man, I can’t read anybody’s mind.
00:33:37.260 –> 00:33:42.660
David Vogelpohl: Can you read it says make the sample child theme. Use a build process and document how to use it.
00:33:43.050 –> 00:33:55.830
David Vogelpohl: So his notion was not every theme. And, of course, a lot of the people using the premium child themes are not going to ever use a build process. So his, his notion was, you know, essentially to do that with sample and then document how it’s used.
00:33:56.940 –> 00:34:02.520
David Vogelpohl: He has some other specific recommendations among around magnification and so on and so forth.
00:34:03.720 –> 00:34:11.370
David Vogelpohl: But you know, I think it’s interesting you know internally at WP Engine. People will often say, well, what is Genesis about is it about
00:34:11.700 –> 00:34:17.880
David Vogelpohl: DIY developers or is it about advanced developers and you know it’s funny because the answer is both.
00:34:18.360 –> 00:34:24.780
David Vogelpohl: If your user of a premium child theme, you might not be very technical at all. But if you’re leveraging Genesis
00:34:25.650 –> 00:34:37.680
David Vogelpohl: The framework to build custom themes from scratch, in a sense, or even using sample and then modding from there you can get very, very technical, Nick. The geek certainly carry you in the why.
00:34:38.130 –> 00:34:44.640
David Vogelpohl: And so there’s this broad spectrum of people that use the products and you’re like, well, wait a minute, but who is the product for
00:34:45.150 –> 00:34:55.560
David Vogelpohl: And it’s funny, the way that I rationalize all this is that the genesis framework and Jim things like Genesis custom blocks and other kind of developer centric tools, if you will.
00:34:56.190 –> 00:35:02.760
David Vogelpohl: Are really to allow developers to build experiences that content creators love to use
00:35:03.210 –> 00:35:08.550
David Vogelpohl: So you as a freelancer or if you were an agency and you were more if you were internal at a brand.
00:35:08.880 –> 00:35:13.350
David Vogelpohl: You’re building a beautiful design, but you’re building it in the context of the CMS.
00:35:13.650 –> 00:35:24.840
David Vogelpohl: So that way, either you yourself or non technical content creators can go behind you and create new experiences without every new experience being a design and development ticket.
00:35:25.230 –> 00:35:35.280
David Vogelpohl: I think blocks really extends the power of that. But as I think about things like the blocks within Genesis custom blocks or all the premium child themes
00:35:35.970 –> 00:35:42.000
David Vogelpohl: Those are expressions of how the genesis development tools can be used to build things that are easy.
00:35:42.330 –> 00:35:49.860
David Vogelpohl: And so that’s how I personally think about the dichotomy in the in the community is like you have, you know, super hyper nerds over here and less
00:35:50.160 –> 00:35:59.910
David Vogelpohl: Technical people on the other side, but it’s really kind of two sides of the same coin. How do you think about that analogy carry or an action to why I haven’t asked you a question.
00:36:01.860 –> 00:36:18.570
Nahuai: Now, I think it’s great that you’re focusing in both profiles, especially because I’m myself. I’m a developer, I, I’d really like to to work with Genesis because sp. That’s my workflows and it has a quite clean
00:36:19.230 –> 00:36:28.290
Nahuai: Code at the end. And it’s easy to to tinker with but I always think about the final user. So I love that.
00:36:28.950 –> 00:36:42.510
Nahuai: You implemented the one click setup for the premium themes, because it was really one of the biggest pain points of our user that is trying to get the look of the demo.
00:36:42.870 –> 00:36:50.700
Nahuai: That the kids are looking at. And he’s getting something really, really different. So this protecting that it was
00:36:51.390 –> 00:36:57.600
Nahuai: Very well done for your part, and together with Gutenberg that in the they came together.
00:36:58.380 –> 00:37:13.080
Nahuai: They can really do like the basic thing if you don’t have enough money for pay and a developer and you take a nice premium tells him, and with a one click setup you will probably could.
00:37:13.920 –> 00:37:26.280
Nahuai: Do something if you don’t miss a lot Wigan styles, you will probably end up with a pretty nice website that then you can take care on change the blocks. So I think that that part is
00:37:26.760 –> 00:37:48.480
Nahuai: Is also interesting, interesting, and I think that is a good approach that you also go in that way. And in this related with this is really nice for film creators, because you are putting some tools for them to to have a better end product. So I think that is a yeah it’s, it’s good.
00:37:48.900 –> 00:38:00.030
David Vogelpohl: Yeah, it was interesting because it’s to me it wasn’t about separating the two they were they were you know directly connected the experience of the content creator and the experience of the developer. And I remember when
00:38:01.110 –> 00:38:05.130
David Vogelpohl: Gutenberg came out. People were like, Oh, you’re just turning WordPress into wicks
00:38:05.610 –> 00:38:19.320
David Vogelpohl: And I’m like, well not really WordPress is open and extensible Jason Cohen, our CTO and founder actually has a really interesting analogy, where he says, look, dolphins and sharks both have fins, but they’re fundamentally different animals.
00:38:19.740 –> 00:38:26.040
David Vogelpohl: They both have fins because fins are helpful for the environment in which you exist as an ocean dwelling animal
00:38:26.580 –> 00:38:36.660
David Vogelpohl: And so CMS content management systems benefit from things like block based building approaches. And so as I think of Genesis is role in that.
00:38:37.050 –> 00:38:47.310
David Vogelpohl: You know, again, if I’m a DIY person I can use Genesis blocks. I can use things like a one click setup theme and all that other kind of stuff like go super fast. But if I’m a brand or an agency.
00:38:47.610 –> 00:38:58.380
David Vogelpohl: I can create my own versions of that one click theme setup isn’t something you can only use when you buy a theme, as a developer, you can make your own one click theme setup and maybe it’s for selling your themes
00:38:58.650 –> 00:39:05.100
David Vogelpohl: But maybe it’s also for setting up your marketing team to create the next microsite for their event faster or whatever the thing is.
00:39:05.970 –> 00:39:16.530
David Vogelpohl: So you know it’s it’s really interesting to think of the product suite is not just for one thing that’s actually for both. But that’s actually really helpful because the developers are trying to create those experiences.
00:39:17.580 –> 00:39:36.210
David Vogelpohl: Next question in the agenda was we released Genesis blocks on wordpress.org, I think it was the week before we had the meeting. And we said, what are your observations and advice regarding the.org version of Genesis blocks. Now that it’s live knew why you brought up the WP tavern article
00:39:36.630 –> 00:39:39.360
David Vogelpohl: And for those that didn’t see it on WP tavern.
00:39:40.350 –> 00:39:45.480
David Vogelpohl: There was a ride app and forget the purse, the author’s name offhand. But basically, there was
00:39:46.020 –> 00:39:47.940
Nahuai: I think it was just in touch. Look.
00:39:48.030 –> 00:39:48.720
David Vogelpohl: I forget what
00:39:48.750 –> 00:39:50.700
David Vogelpohl: It was yeah I remember that now.
00:39:51.090 –> 00:39:56.550
David Vogelpohl: So in Justin’s article he had talked to someone who had had problems converting
00:39:56.850 –> 00:40:11.250
David Vogelpohl: From atomic blocks to Genesis blocks. Now, for those following along there actually will be migration tech to make that super easy, but this person had kind of gone about it on his own and it was funny because in the genesis blocks update
00:40:12.720 –> 00:40:24.660
David Vogelpohl: Mike McAllister had removed the prefixes to the block. So, and say, like, you know, GB dash block name and a, b, and it for atomic box dash block name.
00:40:25.170 –> 00:40:35.760
David Vogelpohl: And it was funny because Mike later commented, he was like, look, I did that to not like show Genesis and atomic box branding all in the block interface and everything like that. But there is this
00:40:36.570 –> 00:40:50.850
David Vogelpohl: Kind of usability side effect where the person mentioned in the article couldn’t differentiate between what blocks were what had to go through his whole site. What do you think about that noise and you were the one to bring that topic up here. Yeah.
00:40:50.910 –> 00:40:54.390
Nahuai: I think that that Mike’s intentions were really good.
00:40:56.430 –> 00:40:59.580
David Vogelpohl: About this right like this is like that’s that’s the point.
00:40:59.670 –> 00:41:04.890
Nahuai: That’s the point that there is Miss are missing a standard and that’s why this kind of things are happening.
00:41:06.000 –> 00:41:20.790
Nahuai: So yeah, probably. It would be, it makes sense to have a standard for every third party plugins and in this especially block collections to have a way to to just add the prefix or something that
00:41:21.360 –> 00:41:41.460
Nahuai: The user can distinguish between the native blocks and they orders. So yeah. In this case, I can. It was just because the there is still no standard. I hope that this this event or this happening, and just in a writing about it brings attention and now they can
00:41:42.630 –> 00:41:49.680
Nahuai: Develop or write about. I understand that that a Genesis blocks and all the third party blocks can
00:41:50.820 –> 00:41:52.890
Nahuai: Use and unfollow yeah
00:41:52.980 –> 00:41:57.270
David Vogelpohl: Well, I’m glad we can be out here on this leading edge finding all the problems. I mean,
00:41:58.440 –> 00:41:59.700
David Vogelpohl: It’s always fun. Right.
00:42:00.840 –> 00:42:10.320
David Vogelpohl: Yeah, obviously it’s things are released. And it’s a wide mentioned, there are no you know standards around block naming and situations like this actually help evolve standards so
00:42:12.120 –> 00:42:21.510
David Vogelpohl: Glad for Justin to share that person’s story and the opportunity to learn there and it sounds like hopefully the overall word for is also looking to learn there as well.
00:42:22.800 –> 00:42:33.060
David Vogelpohl: It’s a one of our favorite parts of contributing in WordPress and participating in WordPress is, you know, helping to define what that means. So what what comes next, and so on and so forth.
00:42:33.660 –> 00:42:40.170
David Vogelpohl: Looks like Robin connect connect she runs local meetups she said she showed it in her local meetup last week.
00:42:40.740 –> 00:42:50.970
David Vogelpohl: And the sections and layouts were very impressive know why you talked a little bit about one click theme setup and how it kind of gets you to this faster part forward, of course, that’s
00:42:51.330 –> 00:42:57.240
David Vogelpohl: Kind of the sentiment or experience that we’re shooting for in Genesis block sections and layouts.
00:42:58.140 –> 00:43:07.560
David Vogelpohl: The way I reference it to, you know, Friends, family and colleagues is when I want to show someone the magic of WordPress I show them things like one click themes that I’ve sections and layouts.
00:43:08.010 –> 00:43:18.120
David Vogelpohl: And we have collections coming soon. So this will be a whole other thing which will actually be talking about in future videos. That’ll be the next kind of evolution, if you will have sections and layouts.
00:43:21.270 –> 00:43:29.700
David Vogelpohl: Looks like Nick is happy that his custom CSS appears to still be working after the release of Genesis block so yay for that.
00:43:31.110 –> 00:43:46.020
David Vogelpohl: I think that’s another thing with Genesis blocks is not just the pre configured and pre designed blocks that come with it, but you still have course have the ability to customize the look and feel of those blocks. So it looks like next custom CSS was working. So that made him happy.
00:43:50.910 –> 00:43:56.040
David Vogelpohl: Let’s see here. What else looks like Sally tested it.
00:43:58.140 –> 00:44:01.350
David Vogelpohl: Looks like the name Kate change confused her a bit
00:44:02.370 –> 00:44:09.870
David Vogelpohl: You know, we’ve seen you know different as we’ve written a release Genesis block, just as custom blocks and then just getting ready for full site editing.
00:44:10.380 –> 00:44:21.300
David Vogelpohl: Just, just, just one thing to reiterate, is we’re elevating the name Genesis. So up to up to date. Genesis has primarily been used to refer to the genesis framework.
00:44:21.900 –> 00:44:32.880
David Vogelpohl: As we had things like atomic blocks which came over, as part of another acquisition shortly after studio press as we brought on the team from block lab to build Genesis custom blocks.
00:44:33.330 –> 00:44:41.220
David Vogelpohl: We knew we needed names for things. And of course, as I’m sure you’ve experienced in the middle of doing all this. Sometimes the naming is confusing.
00:44:41.670 –> 00:44:54.540
David Vogelpohl: When you start saying things like, if you want to build with with studio press build with Genesis framework studio press themes atomic clocks block lab and you know five other things that don’t have this kind of common naming convention.
00:44:55.920 –> 00:45:05.400
David Vogelpohl: You know, it really becomes even more difficult and I know these in between steps are confusing and weird. And it’s hard to make sense of it. But really, that was the reason
00:45:05.850 –> 00:45:14.100
David Vogelpohl: Why we renamed essentially atomic box to Genesis blogs. So, as Chris Garrett long time city or press person but
00:45:14.730 –> 00:45:24.990
David Vogelpohl: Again, we’re elevating that brand Genesis, because it means so much. I mean, obviously the communities defined in that way, so on and so forth. And so that’s why the renaming was really focused there.
00:45:26.730 –> 00:45:36.990
David Vogelpohl: Let’s see. Sally was in favor of reviewing the blocks in Genesis blocks to see if they are redundant. Now, or if there are core blocks that maybe you’re, you know,
00:45:37.830 –> 00:45:44.370
David Vogelpohl: Might be similar, where the blocks and Genesis blocks wouldn’t be needed anymore. That’s something we definitely always look at
00:45:46.080 –> 00:45:47.670
David Vogelpohl: Let’s see, what else here.
00:45:51.060 –> 00:45:56.520
David Vogelpohl: Looks like Sally had some nice suggestions around transforming blocks.
00:45:57.690 –> 00:46:02.910
David Vogelpohl: Looks like this is something that some other block technology has taken advantage of.
00:46:05.130 –> 00:46:09.900
David Vogelpohl: Looks like she’s talking about that in the context of the migration technology which will be out soon.
00:46:11.310 –> 00:46:23.040
David Vogelpohl: Let’s see, what else. Okay, so that was for the most part it on Genesis blocks. I mean, people you know in general thought it were Sally had specific points around. Do we need this block or that block.
00:46:23.670 –> 00:46:40.740
David Vogelpohl: And then some questions around the naming. And then of course the prefix issue which we talked about earlier. So the next question to the shapers is what are your observations or advice regarding the.org version of Genesis custom blocks now that it is live.
00:46:42.270 –> 00:46:45.600
David Vogelpohl: Speaking of naming confusions Sally.
00:46:47.460 –> 00:46:54.720
David Vogelpohl: Meetings taking places 7am her time on the west coast and it says, isn’t that what we just talked about.
00:46:55.170 –> 00:46:55.770
David Vogelpohl: Flies again.
00:46:56.010 –> 00:47:07.290
David Vogelpohl: Yes, it is. You have it in the agenda twice and then she replies boobs, nevermind. Not enough coffee. Yeah, that’s right. Genesis blocks and Genesis custom blocks are different plugins.
00:47:07.800 –> 00:47:18.000
David Vogelpohl: And I think this is also interesting as we think about the naming convention here because, you know, Sally just didn’t notice the word custom moon in in between Genesis and blocks.
00:47:18.660 –> 00:47:27.750
David Vogelpohl: But yes, rest assured, it was a different plugin Nick wondered if that confusion is it confusion. Other users were will feel
00:47:28.860 –> 00:47:33.240
David Vogelpohl: Having used Genesis blocks in Genesis custom blocks nomenclature.
00:47:34.350 –> 00:47:46.410
David Vogelpohl: Internally and externally it that the difference between those two actually hasn’t. I haven’t seen a ton of confusion around that. I know there’s been confusion around Genesis pro and Pro Plus and all these other things.
00:47:47.160 –> 00:47:54.900
David Vogelpohl: But I felt like haven’t actually run into a lot of problems with people differentiating between Genesis blocks and custom blocks Carrie. What about you, I know you’ve
00:47:54.900 –> 00:47:57.120
David Vogelpohl: Kind of lived in both worlds here for a little while.
00:47:57.630 –> 00:47:58.860
Carrie Dils: Yeah, I actually
00:47:59.970 –> 00:48:03.540
Carrie Dils: Just put up a post this past week kind of differentiating the two
00:48:04.590 –> 00:48:15.150
Carrie Dils: When I post a question in the genesis Facebook group about Genesis custom blocks in some of the responses I got, I think, I think you’re talking about Genesis blocks.
00:48:16.080 –> 00:48:17.280
David Vogelpohl: Okay, okay that’s what
00:48:17.280 –> 00:48:22.140
Carrie Dils: Led me to kind of realized that some people don’t quite get the distinction that blocks is a
00:48:23.310 –> 00:48:33.120
Carrie Dils: Did this this blocks is a collection or a library of existing blocks, whereas Genesis custom blocks lets you create brand new blocks from scratch.
00:48:33.750 –> 00:48:46.410
David Vogelpohl: Yeah, there were a few decisions around keeping that functionality separate. So why are they two plugins actually might be one question people might have, I think, one for one they actually are serving two different roles, if you will.
00:48:47.310 –> 00:48:55.590
David Vogelpohl: So that’s one reason and developers, of course, often will want kind of separation of concerns. Now the plugins are orchestrated to work well together, of course.
00:48:56.760 –> 00:49:02.460
David Vogelpohl: So that was fundamentally how the team landed on keeping them as two separate plugins.
00:49:03.510 –> 00:49:14.820
David Vogelpohl: But yeah, they’re very close in name and of course hindsight is always 2020 but I’d say for myself. I’m comfortable with both names. I think they help you know, fundamentally, the naming decision was around
00:49:15.570 –> 00:49:24.360
David Vogelpohl: That the name should should explain what the thing does. So we didn’t want to make, you know, Genesis blocks lightning or something like that.
00:49:24.660 –> 00:49:30.060
David Vogelpohl: That although maybe that would be more clear because then you’d have like thunder and lightning or something like that. Oh, that’s
00:49:30.120 –> 00:49:31.290
David Vogelpohl: Obviously the different
00:49:32.310 –> 00:49:45.780
David Vogelpohl: So that’s fundamentally what drove this decisions was really having the name be descriptive of what it does. And then, of course, to utilize or to use, if you will, the genesis brand and so
00:49:46.380 –> 00:49:47.850
David Vogelpohl: We’ll keep an eye on things, but
00:49:47.850 –> 00:49:48.690
Nahuai: At this point,
00:49:49.080 –> 00:49:55.320
Nahuai: I think it’s pretty clear. If you are right to this point. I think that the messy part is the transition
00:49:55.560 –> 00:50:03.120
Nahuai: Because it’s difficult to understand that the genesis blocks was before atomic blocks and now block lap is
00:50:03.390 –> 00:50:15.150
Nahuai: A Genesis custom blocks which makes sense to have two plugins and they are different and everything that I think that the hard part for for you as a brand is communicating and that’s why
00:50:15.750 –> 00:50:26.190
Nahuai: write ups like calories and I also did one in Spanish. And today we record that in Freelander the podcast with it. Just a monographic about the now that they
00:50:26.700 –> 00:50:45.690
Nahuai: change of name is already done. You have the two free versions of Genesis blocks and then Cisco stone blocks in the report, and then inside Genesis pro subscription, you have the pro version of those two black. So now, for me, it’s pretty clear but till we are right still here.
00:50:49.560 –> 00:50:50.070
David Vogelpohl: Yeah.
00:50:50.400 –> 00:51:00.930
David Vogelpohl: I remember and I missed a day, a little over a year and a half ago now and full site editing was kind of becoming more clear on the timeframe and what it was going to look like.
00:51:01.500 –> 00:51:08.940
David Vogelpohl: And I remember internally people asking like, Well, what’s our plan for FFC. What are we going to do you know how does Genesis look in the future.
00:51:09.570 –> 00:51:21.120
David Vogelpohl: And we put this kind of very loose talk track and deck together to kind of explain things with atomic blocks and custom blocks and things like that.
00:51:21.780 –> 00:51:28.860
David Vogelpohl: And but we had all these brand new. And I was like, I can’t explain this to myself. So how many explained this to others.
00:51:29.820 –> 00:51:42.810
David Vogelpohl: So that’s when we kind of forged that naming convention in the general strategy. We’re seeing and executing against now. But as you pointed out, of course, the messy middle is where things are confusing. So thank you for your patience and thank certainly
00:51:43.590 –> 00:51:59.610
David Vogelpohl: To their patients as well. Um, let’s see. It looks like Robin Coronet she activated custom blocks briefly to prepare for the meetup talk or the meeting talk but didn’t have time to code out but she didn’t have any feedback.
00:52:00.810 –> 00:52:11.100
David Vogelpohl: Carrie, I know you have a demo video of using custom blocks so people can definitely check that out. Yeah. So you press.com forward slash Genesis dash custom dash blocks.
00:52:12.960 –> 00:52:20.310
David Vogelpohl: Looks like Sally, like the name Black lab that plugins actually being dedicated, of course, you know, with custom blocks.
00:52:21.030 –> 00:52:24.540
David Vogelpohl: Looks like bills thoughts. He played with it a bit today.
00:52:25.110 –> 00:52:36.690
David Vogelpohl: He like he felt some of the advanced field options in the pro version was what he would really need to embrace it. So he wasn’t you know necessarily gonna embrace the free version right away, but he said he liked how it aligns
00:52:37.380 –> 00:52:44.070
David Vogelpohl: With his block as a template partial approach he uses with another product for using custom blocks.
00:52:45.450 –> 00:52:47.910
David Vogelpohl: Let’s see. Carrie you respond to this.
00:52:48.870 –> 00:52:55.650
Carrie Dils: Yeah, my, my thought there. So if you look at the current documentation direct commendation for coding out those
00:52:57.630 –> 00:53:05.940
Carrie Dils: Partial templates, is to put it in your theme. But as I’ve been playing with it and swapping out themes realizing, I’m having to
00:53:06.960 –> 00:53:22.080
Carrie Dils: Drag that blocks all those template parts over to each theme. Whereas if I just had it in a lack of core functionality plugin or whatnot. So my, my recommendation was just to maybe change the documentation to
00:53:24.660 –> 00:53:30.360
Carrie Dils: build those blocks out as part of a plugin so that it transcends whichever theme. You’ve got activated.
00:53:30.720 –> 00:53:41.010
David Vogelpohl: You are alluding to full site editing at this point in a lot of ways in this notion of where do the templates reside and
00:53:41.340 –> 00:53:53.940
David Vogelpohl: What wins the theme versus the plugin, a matter of fact, your recommendation is plug the plug in the blocks should win versus having that within the theme. And of course, that’s the way FFC in general is going
00:53:55.320 –> 00:53:59.880
David Vogelpohl: And we actually have a beta theme we’re working on now.
00:54:01.110 –> 00:54:12.570
David Vogelpohl: Which is designed to, to, to illustrate the difference and how you might approach that including those living in the on the plugin side versus the themes side.
00:54:13.170 –> 00:54:26.670
David Vogelpohl: So these of course are very early times relative to FFC so a lot to answer there. But we actually will be releasing some content around that and the not too distant future with a call for people to participate in a beta
00:54:27.150 –> 00:54:29.160
David Vogelpohl: And help us understand what it’s like to
00:54:29.160 –> 00:54:35.400
David Vogelpohl: Build a site in that way, you could think about this as our pre FFC FFC beta
00:54:36.330 –> 00:54:47.370
David Vogelpohl: So it’s not quite FFC but it’ll be the approach of the beta will really be centered around this notion of really where you’re not doing a lot of that styling within the themes, so
00:54:48.120 –> 00:54:54.990
David Vogelpohl: This is FFC and this is what will come to WordPress, of course. And so we’re trying to help keep the genesis community and the rest of WordPress ahead of all that
00:54:57.210 –> 00:55:01.500
David Vogelpohl: Let’s see, what else here on this question that looks a lot different.
00:55:03.660 –> 00:55:07.560
David Vogelpohl: So Nick thinks it’s cool. Genesis custom blocks.
00:55:10.080 –> 00:55:20.970
David Vogelpohl: He can see it being helpful to a lot of dabs. He says, oh, this is interesting. I’m leaning hard into block patterns and I can see how this is very similar. I feel 90% of the custom blocks, I
00:55:21.630 –> 00:55:31.590
David Vogelpohl: Had to build in the past were solved with a block pattern that I can do in minutes. So this is interesting. So he takes core blocks and uses them to assemble a block pattern.
00:55:31.950 –> 00:55:40.200
00:55:42.480 –> 00:55:43.050
Carrie Dils: I have not
00:55:44.460 –> 00:55:45.240
David Vogelpohl: Why have you
00:55:46.680 –> 00:56:09.870
Nahuai: I’m kind of not really in that hardly in it on it, but I guess I didn’t find i know i usually when I build websites I don’t use a CF last of the design. I use, I try to use always blocks and usually with the curb looks and atomic books now known as Genesis block.
00:56:11.130 –> 00:56:20.820
Nahuai: In data I’m telling every people that is building a new site to use DNS is blocks from from the start, because they they will avoid the immigration, which is good.
00:56:21.570 –> 00:56:39.120
Nahuai: So I’ve been using block native blocks and they relax with a styling. I was able to manage pretty much every, every case in my scenario. So, but, yeah, I think that they block patterns I before I use like
00:56:39.900 –> 00:56:51.750
Nahuai: Reusable blocks to that aim, but now I think that block patterns is going to be one of the key features for the building of Neil. NEIL yeah themes
00:56:52.080 –> 00:57:07.920
David Vogelpohl: Yeah. Nice. Yeah, I have that on my list of things to try next approach here before I word camp Philly talk at the end of September, so going to hopefully be able to try that out mentioned it, or maybe even show some examples. And that talk.
00:57:09.990 –> 00:57:19.920
David Vogelpohl: Next few questions on the agenda here. Where do you think Genesis custom blocks is helpful to less advanced developers, why or why not we asked them at the same time, because we’re kind of running low on time for the agenda.
00:57:20.340 –> 00:57:32.760
David Vogelpohl: And then as HTML, CSS, something a non technical Genesis user could do. And this really started a lot of conversations around what what do you mean by a non technical Genesis
00:57:33.870 –> 00:57:42.150
David Vogelpohl: So what we don’t mean is someone that doesn’t know how to build with WordPress, what we mean is basically what noize said at the beginning of this video.
00:57:42.630 –> 00:57:53.940
David Vogelpohl: Which was, I can build with a theme and some plugins, but I’m really not modifying code. I’m definitely not creating code. And so I guess I’m kind of answering the question there.
00:57:55.260 –> 00:57:55.980
David Vogelpohl: But
00:57:57.300 –> 00:58:01.950
David Vogelpohl: It was interesting because, you know, it looks like looking at the responses.
00:58:03.390 –> 00:58:13.140
00:58:13.620 –> 00:58:19.170
David Vogelpohl: React. And so a UI driven system will be a big improvement for them so
00:58:20.130 –> 00:58:27.270
David Vogelpohl: In other words, you don’t have to know react to build custom blocks, but you do have to know HTML, CSS, and a little PHP.
00:58:27.750 –> 00:58:35.520
David Vogelpohl: In order to build them. And so if you are truly non technical you’re taking a one click theme setup theme and modifying it in the block editor.
00:58:36.150 –> 00:58:40.140
David Vogelpohl: You’re probably going to have a high learning curve to use Genesis custom blocks.
00:58:40.740 –> 00:58:49.620
David Vogelpohl: But if you’re what I call the kind of run of the mill WordPress developer skill set, you can mod HTML, CSS, a little bit of PHP and I know people get much more advanced than that of course
00:58:50.130 –> 00:59:01.320
David Vogelpohl: But if you have that skill set, then justice custom blocks is likely something that you can pick up very quickly. Carrie, I know you’ve done a lot of demo content around GCB. Would you agree with that statement.
00:59:02.430 –> 00:59:11.520
Carrie Dils: Yes, and Sally makes a good point that HTML and CSS or are legit languages, too. So don’t brush them off is just being easy but
00:59:12.540 –> 00:59:25.080
Carrie Dils: You like you said, if for people that are already familiar with those, then yes, building out those custom block templates is pretty straightforward. I like
00:59:25.170 –> 00:59:31.710
David Vogelpohl: I like to call out to not dismiss them because they are true and difficult languages in many respects. What about you know why.
00:59:32.400 –> 00:59:44.460
Nahuai: Yeah, when I tried. I tried before block lap and the building process is very similar. Maybe what I missed or the part that I thought that it was harder for a non technical
00:59:44.910 –> 00:59:56.970
Nahuai: A user is that when you don’t have the template created so you can build all the fields inside the block, but if you don’t create their template that is going to display and render on their content.
00:59:58.200 –> 01:00:04.110
Nahuai: If you are still editing and you tried to previous previous to life size. Yeah. Sorry for that.
01:00:04.980 –> 01:00:17.610
Nahuai: Yeah, try to see a in the front is giving you an error that is not really telling you, our template is missing is like a generic a good timber error. And that could be
01:00:17.970 –> 01:00:28.590
Nahuai: A bit of friction for a new user that didn’t read the documentation, because they documentation and the spelling words were written, and you can understand it, but some people don’t.
01:00:29.250 –> 01:00:40.710
Nahuai: That’s that’s everyday recommendation. So maybe Tintin that message. And if it’s possible could help to pointing in the right direction to the very nice. Yeah.
01:00:41.010 –> 01:00:46.410
David Vogelpohl: Yeah, I think I flagged like three of the genesis custom blocks folks from the R amp D side and that
01:00:46.410 –> 01:00:50.130
David Vogelpohl: Thread correctly Rob stenson who’s
01:00:51.180 –> 01:00:58.260
David Vogelpohl: Doing a lot of the documentation where he’s on the product marketing team Luke carbon, who’s a product manager for Genesis custom blocks.
01:00:58.770 –> 01:01:11.760
David Vogelpohl: And then Ryan can stretch think is how you say his last name, an engineer on the GCB project. And so that’s good feedback I know error messages that aren’t very clear, like the bane of everyone’s existence because
01:01:12.990 –> 01:01:13.800
David Vogelpohl: I do with this.
01:01:14.490 –> 01:01:21.720
David Vogelpohl: So that’s good feedback. Thank you for helping us with that early on. Alright, so the very last question. Genesis shaper September 2020
01:01:22.140 –> 01:01:31.110
David Vogelpohl: If you were wanting to start using Genesis custom blocks for the first time, what would be the most useful. Getting Started resource for you ID, what
01:01:31.620 –> 01:01:38.550
David Vogelpohl: Are what do you would you need to get moving quickly. I’m not gonna read all the responses, but I would say that it was kind of like this tug and pull between
01:01:38.910 –> 01:01:47.520
David Vogelpohl: I hate videos and I love videos and I just want to documentation or no, I need a step by step guide and it was like it was
01:01:47.760 –> 01:01:53.820
David Vogelpohl: Almost I feel representative of just like in general how people like to learn is that some people love one ways that people love another way
01:01:54.210 –> 01:02:09.780
David Vogelpohl: I know that both of you actually specialize in training. So maybe Carrie, I’ll start with you first. How do you think about the tug and pull of things like video content step by step guide super technical documentation, like all of it. Some of it or they cater to your community.
01:02:10.290 –> 01:02:26.670
Carrie Dils: Welcome, there is the element of catering it to your community. But yeah, different people learn differently so presenting in a visual format or an audio format or just an ability to read and using those things together. So the training the
01:02:27.900 –> 01:02:32.820
Carrie Dils: The notion of DO SHOW TELL or by SHOW TELL do that right
01:02:34.560 –> 01:02:36.180
Carrie Dils: Tell show do anyway. Show them.
01:02:38.850 –> 01:02:40.170
Carrie Dils: Bringing expert needs coffee.
01:02:41.610 –> 01:02:55.710
Carrie Dils: Showing somebody what it is you’re trying to do and then telling them how to do it and then letting them get their hands dirty and do it themselves, kind of, well, I know nobody ever take a course for me because I don’t
01:02:56.550 –> 01:02:57.630
Carrie Dils: I don’t know what I’m talking about.
01:02:58.290 –> 01:02:58.560
01:03:01.320 –> 01:03:02.010
David Vogelpohl: Good idea.
01:03:02.430 –> 01:03:03.450
Carrie Dils: You know, it’s funny.
01:03:03.810 –> 01:03:14.760
David Vogelpohl: You mentioned that, because even this shapers recap video. No, I know you were in that thread in Genesis slack general around the first episode, we did
01:03:15.390 –> 01:03:27.810
David Vogelpohl: And the shapers recap video and there was somebody that was like well you transcribed it but you only made it closed captioning. I actually want to read the whole transcription in one go. And then somebody else was like, well, could you do like recap bullets.
01:03:28.170 –> 01:03:34.440
David Vogelpohl: And then someone else was like, what could you do like a narrative recap like okay so we got like narrative recap.
01:03:34.920 –> 01:03:43.500
David Vogelpohl: Video transcriptions and then I promised I would look to see if we can do it via an emoji interpretive dance, but that did not work out so
01:03:43.830 –> 01:03:48.660
David Vogelpohl: We’ll have to see what happens when we publish this video, we definitely have the transcription for accessibility.
01:03:49.110 –> 01:03:57.180
David Vogelpohl: And we’ll see how many of those, we can actually produce what about, you know, I, how do you think about the difference in learning styles and how you create documentation and educational material.
01:03:59.040 –> 01:04:05.820
Nahuai: Everyone is different. So probably everyone is going to have different preferences. I prefer usefully to have
01:04:06.360 –> 01:04:14.730
Nahuai: A step by step written a tutorial, probably with screenshots, if there is some settings hiding somewhere.
01:04:15.480 –> 01:04:25.620
Nahuai: Because I think that they go faster than in a video that there is people like Korea, I can recommend carries courses because I did. And this is great.
01:04:26.400 –> 01:04:38.100
Nahuai: Teaching and they they they do a short videos, but some of them take, like, I don’t know, half an hour to maybe explain one thing that you could read in five minutes or depending of your
01:04:38.940 –> 01:04:56.490
Nahuai: Expertise level is going to be different but I tend to prefer the return once with the copy paste code that is also easier to to move around. But that’s just my preference and regarding the recap. I was the one asking for the MP3 version because
01:04:56.550 –> 01:04:58.770
David Vogelpohl: Me oh yes for the podcast.
01:04:58.800 –> 01:05:00.720
David Vogelpohl: Yeah, that’s right. I forgot. Oh my goodness.
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Nahuai: That’s when it’s not that difficult, because you can start the MP3 just because I consume a lot of podcasts and I can do it synchronously, because having there. And yeah, the video, all of the time is notice if you are coding or something like that, but
01:05:18.780 –> 01:05:19.380
01:05:20.670 –> 01:05:25.950
David Vogelpohl: Okay, I have to remember the MP3 for this one in a while. Maybe we’ll do this episode MP3, at least, just for you.
01:05:26.460 –> 01:05:34.140
Carrie Dils: I’m gonna write some documentation on how to strip the audio from the video so you can just do it yourself the way
01:05:34.590 –> 01:05:37.170
Nahuai: Oh, yes. Yeah.
01:05:37.950 –> 01:05:46.050
Nahuai: Nice. Oh, I’m sorry, I missed and I can do it myself. I was just thinking of other people because I attend to the meeting. So I usually know what
01:05:47.760 –> 01:05:50.220
Nahuai: Took you know but yeah nice one.
01:05:51.570 –> 01:06:05.010
David Vogelpohl: Alright. Alright, well, we’ll look into that and maybe revisit the emoji interpretive dance idea, but I wanted to thank you both for joining us today. Really enjoyed the discussion and certainly your contributions at the shapers meeting. So thanks. Know why
01:06:06.870 –> 01:06:07.560
01:06:08.670 –> 01:06:09.570
David Vogelpohl: Thank you, Carrie.
01:06:10.200 –> 01:06:26.130
David Vogelpohl: Sure thing. If you’d like to more LEARN MORE ABOUT WHAT, KERRY is up to you can visit Curie deals calm has a lot of great training material there around Genesis and, of course, the y at code decaux Genesis calm co di G O genesis.com
01:06:26.670 –> 01:06:31.950
David Vogelpohl: Tons of great training material there as well focused around the Spanish Genesis community.
01:06:32.580 –> 01:06:40.980
David Vogelpohl: I’d like to thank you all for joining us here today for the genesis recap gencer shapers recap video for the genesis community live cast
01:06:41.550 –> 01:06:56.760
David Vogelpohl: Again, I’m your host, David Vogel pole. I’ve been a proud member of the genesis community for over eight years. I lead Genesis at WP Engine and I love helping the genesis community get better together with my friends from the shapers. Thank you.
01:06:58.170 –> 01:06:58.740
David Vogelpohl: Thank you.
As a reminder, the Genesis Shapers are a global, hand-selected, and diverse group of people representing companies from across the community who share a representative voice for the strategic direction of Genesis, which is combined with the feedback we receive directly from customers across social channels, and through Genesis WP on Slack.