Each month the Genesis Shapers meets for one hour to discuss the evolving WordPress landscape and how it relates to the Genesis community.
This first Genesis shapers update of 2021 is delivered via video (with transcript)!
Check out the update, presented by David Vogelpohl, Carrie Dils, with Special Guest, Jon Brown, below.
If you missed any updates, they can be found in the YouTube channel here.
Don’t have time for the video? Enjoy the TL;DW:
- Question: The global lockdown & shift toward digital has caused a boost in revenue for many WordPress agencies & freelancers, but also hard times for many others. What are your top 3 lockdown-friendly tips for quickly finding new agency / freelance work you can share for those in need?
- Shapers’ Answers: Reach out to existing clients and propose improving their website in some way. Offer to make old sites Gutenberg-friendly and easier to manage. Call a bigger agency and ask if they have any overflow work for you. Join an agency program to get a listing in their agency directory (get a listing in SP’s directory by applying here and selecting “Genesis” in list of specialties). Call / email businesses in your area to offer your services since local developers / designers are often preferred to those elsewhere. Sell support or maintenance packages where you charge recurring revenue or even resell things like hosting (check out Growth Suite).
- Question: In your agency / freelance work, do you resell any technology as part of your offering to clients (e.g. themes, plugins, hosting, etc)? If so, do you require your customers to acquire their own licences / services before you start building a site, switch to their own licenses / services after the customer eventually leaves you as a service provider, or something else?
- Shapers’ Answers: Most shapers required customers to buy their own copies of premium plugins and themes; however, others bundle in premium technology into a one-price approach with clients. Some of the Shapers offered hosting by itself or as part of a maintenance package to boost recurring revenue. Those that did not offer hosting found it to be too much trouble to mess with.
- Question: What are your best tips for improving site speed with WooCommerce stores in general or specifically related to Genesis products?
- Shapers’ Answers: Several Shapers reported that for smaller stores their normal WordPress speed optimization approaches were just fine without the need for additional refinements. Mike Hemberger recommended disabling cart fragments and Manage WooCommerce styles and scripts.
- Question: What are your best tips for increasing the conversion rates for the WordPress ecommerce sites you optimize? What can the Genesis community do to increase sales on their ecomm sites?
- Shapers’ Answers: Add a chat widget to your site and set it to only be available when the owner / staff of the ecommerce site are available. Impliment abandonded cart emails. Impliment abandonded cart popups. For bigger sites try user personalization (example).
- Question: Is WooCommerce how you build most of your ecommerce sites? If not, what do you use and why?
- Shapers’ Answers: Most Shapers use WooCommerce or Easy Digital Downloads when building a WordPress ecommerce site. When building a non-WP ecommerce site, Shapers mostly use Shopify due to it’s ease of use. That said, when ecommerce stores want advanced / custom functionality to stand out from other stores, the clear choice is WordPress for most Shapers.
- Question: Are you using the block editor with WooCommerce stores? If so, what content use cases for the block editor are most helpful? What problems do users have with Ecommerce that would be interesting to solve with the block editor?
- Shapers’ Answers: Some said “no”, but said they would like to. Some said they use blocks on larger ecommerce sites where the store owner wants more control over content. Mike Hemberger recommended this script to enable the block editor on WooCommerce product pages.
- Question: What 3rd party plugins would you want to integrate with your custom blocks?
- Shapers’ Answers: The Events Calendar and Woo were the only answers since we had run out of time to fully explore this in the meeting. If you’d like to suggest plugins you’d like to integrate with custom blocks visit #genesis-custom-blocks in Genesis Slack.
Mike’s Code Snippets
/**
* Remove WooCommerce cart fragments.
* These are used for things like ajax cart menu icons,
* but it's really slow, so let's only keep them where necessary.
*
* @version 1.0.0
*
* @return void
*/
add_action( 'wp_enqueue_scripts', function() {
// Bail if WooCommerce is not active.
if ( ! class_exists( 'WooCommerce' ) ) {
return;
}
// Bail if single product, account, cart, or checkout pages. We need fragments stuff here.
if ( is_singular('product') || is_account_page() || is_cart() || is_checkout() ) {
return;
}
wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-cart-fragments' );
}, 99 );/**
* Manage WooCommerce styles and scripts.
*
* @link https://gregrickaby.com/remove-woocommerce-styles-and-scripts/
*/
add_action( 'wp_enqueue_scripts', function() {
// Remove the generator tag
remove_action( 'wp_head', array( $GLOBALS['woocommerce'], 'generator' ) );
// wp_dequeue_style( 'woocommerce_frontend_styles' );
// wp_dequeue_style( 'woocommerce-general');
// wp_dequeue_style( 'woocommerce-layout' );
// wp_dequeue_style( 'woocommerce-smallscreen' );
// wp_dequeue_style( 'woocommerce_fancybox_styles' );
// wp_dequeue_style( 'woocommerce_chosen_styles' );
// wp_dequeue_style( 'woocommerce_prettyPhoto_css' );
// wp_dequeue_style( 'select2' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-add-payment-method' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-lost-password' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc_price_slider' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-single-product' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-add-to-cart' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-cart-fragments' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-credit-card-form' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-checkout' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-add-to-cart-variation' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-single-product' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-cart' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'wc-chosen' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'woocommerce' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'prettyPhoto' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'prettyPhoto-init' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'jquery-blockui' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'jquery-placeholder' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'jquery-payment' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'fancybox' );
// wp_dequeue_script( 'jqueryui' );
}, 99 );/**
* Use block editor for Woo products.
*/
add_filter( 'use_block_editor_for_post_type', function( $can_edit, $post_type ) {
if ( 'product' === $post_type ) {
$can_edit = true;
}
return $can_edit;
}, 10, 2 );
/**
* Allow Woo Product Categories to work in block editor.
*/
add_filter( 'register_taxonomy_args', function( $args, $taxonomy, $object_type ) {
if ( in_array( $taxonomy, [ 'product_cat', 'product_tag' ] ) ) {
$args['show_in_rest'] = true;
}
return $args;
}, 10, 3 );Transcript
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David Vogelpohl: Hello everyone and welcome to the genesis community live cast. This is our Genesis shapers recap episode for January 2021 shapers meeting.
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David Vogelpohl: The theme of the meeting was sell away with me building badass WordPress ecommerce sites.
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David Vogelpohl: For those who don’t know me, my name is David Vogelpohl. I’ve been a proud member of the genesis community for over eight years. I read Genesis WP Engine and I love helping the genesis community.
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David Vogelpohl: Get better together with my friends from the shapers joining me for this episode or two of my friends from the shapers I’d like to welcome back carrie dils. Hey, Carrie.
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Carrie Dils: I’m Selway come sail away.
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David Vogelpohl: Like a
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David Vogelpohl: Musical interlude and also during his lair chuckling and carries wonderful music skills and invoices. The boy skills there john Brown of nine seeds john.
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Jon Brown: looks too good to be here.
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David Vogelpohl: Awesome. You know john we’ve talked about you extensively on prior community live casts talking about all your comments and your observations. I feel like it’s just like great that you’re here today.
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Jon Brown: Well, it’s very kind of you.
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Jon Brown: I find shapers super helpful on a regular basis to check in with people so
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David Vogelpohl: We love having
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David Vogelpohl: You here and I always love you very astute observations.
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David Vogelpohl: But now you’re here today so you can speak for yourself. They were all good comments by the way from the past. So just, just in case you wanted to know.
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Jon Brown: They’re not all snarky and
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Carrie Dils: Yeah, no words had to be bleeped out
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David Vogelpohl: There, the comments are like sometimes the best though you know like you just like cut to the bone right away. Get getting get the get the real information right away. THAT’S WHAT I LOVE ABOUT YOU, JOHN. Oh.
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Jon Brown: Very good, thank you.
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David Vogelpohl: Alright, well, we’ll go ahead and kick off. So for those that haven’t seen one of these recaps before. Basically, what we do is we roll through the questions that we asked the shapers during the meeting the meeting takes place in Slack.
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David Vogelpohl: It’s on the second Tuesday of the month. And we do the recap video after. So the first question we ask in every meeting is really a call to order, who can make it today. And it looks like we have we have REM kits to free us
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David Vogelpohl: I was there. Yeah. Matthew car Dana’s from the web. The genesis product team. We have Phil Johnson from the engineering team and Nita Carter prior guests here as well as
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David Vogelpohl: Several other Genesis me live cast episodes Ryan can straight from the engineering team john you were there. What’s with the whale. I asked people like do in the movie, you did a way
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Carrie Dils: I love
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Jon Brown: I prefer animals, but I I had just gotten back from Maui watching humpback whales whales were on my mind. I
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Jon Brown: had the fortune of being able to travel there for the holidays to see family so right.
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David Vogelpohl: Well, my
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Jon Brown: Next have just arrived in now in Maui, which is if you ever go to Maui in the spring or late winter go see the whales. It’s really special there.
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David Vogelpohl: Ooh, that’s a good tip. Well, well, Mark, he was president. Anyways, despite your whale.
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David Vogelpohl: We have know why by dolla love know why they’re out of Space Mike hamburger of my themes bill Ericsson of Bill Ericsson bill Ericsson has like a new launch. I saw his new company he launched. I wish I had that side.
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Jon Brown: Targeting publishers that looks really cool.
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah I know that’s been bread and butter for his business for a while and it seems like he’s kind of form that into more of a kind of a company centric offering instead of the bill ericsson.net i think is, is your oh yeah
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Jon Brown: He’s always been great at product sizing services that way it’s always been
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Jon Brown: It’s always been a mentor of mine in terms of product eyes and services for sure.
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David Vogelpohl: His workflows and from from like a freelancer agency perspective how they accept clients all that is. Go. We have to have a moment time to talk about
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David Vogelpohl: That and then Robin coordinate and then carry you were there as well. Looks like Ryan Murray and we had some other folks Nick Croft joined a little later, after we asked that first question.
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David Vogelpohl: Alright, so those are the folks that were able to make it to that meeting. So now let’s get into the content piece like the areas we were looking for feedback on and for those just just for a little context, we try to work in
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David Vogelpohl: Questions that are beneficial. It’s kind of for the community. We work in questions that are beneficial for non technical users and then questions that are beneficial for technical users. And so it’s kind of a mix of those things.
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David Vogelpohl: That our first question is the global lockdown and shift towards digital has caused a boost in revenue for many WordPress agencies and freelancers, but also hard times for many others.
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David Vogelpohl: It’s time to dig deep shapers, what are your three top three lockdown friendly tips for quickly finding new agency freelance work.
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David Vogelpohl: That you can share for those in need. So in other words, if you’re a freelancer agency and you’ve had kind of a dry spell clients because the lockdown. We really wanted to ask the shapers for their advice that regard to Ryan Murray actually responds with a humpback whale imaging
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Jon Brown: I was going to point that out that
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Jon Brown: I was at normally well
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, but his is an actual humpback whale john years was not back way I’m just pointing that out.
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Jon Brown: You know when you do those check ins, you only have like three seconds to find the right emoji. So you get the way that you get
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Jon Brown: Next time I’ll spend five minutes to find the humpback whale emerging
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David Vogelpohl: Please do. We will call you out on the shapers we can
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David Vogelpohl: Join us are one of the first to respond. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you’ve been seeing here with 2020 I know that kind of the services side is also part of your business.
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Jon Brown: You know, the, the bulk of our, our revenues always been services. We keep trying to pivot to to product. But anyway, um, it was an interesting year services wise because we certainly saw an uptick
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Jon Brown: In our client services work at the beginning of 2020. And then, July, August, it slowed down a bit.
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Jon Brown: To the point where november december getting a little bit worried
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Jon Brown: But then it pop right back.
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Jon Brown: Up and January has been gangbusters, for us, which is so reverse because often we get our client base is medium to large business and they have marketing spend they’re trying to exhaust budgets on by the end of the year, quite often. So we see this november december spending.
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Jon Brown: As these these companies that have budgeted for marketing want to spend that money before the new fiscal year for them. But this year, January, it’s been gangbusters. So
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Jon Brown: It’s been an interesting roller coaster for sure. Like, and put in there.
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Jon Brown: I think I’m writing it out or did you do anything different. In the lockdown to try to require
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Jon Brown: Well, we wrote it out and then because we have the product side.
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Jon Brown: October, November to my developers did nothing but theme development work.
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Jon Brown: So hopefully we’ll see something from 19th on that very soon, but
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Jon Brown: It’s it was getting back up to speed with Genesis custom blocks and Genesis steaming going forward and
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Jon Brown: Doing a lot of experimenting with full set editing.
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Jon Brown: That will be coming from us super quick. But having a diverse offering means that you can kind of shift things around, depending on
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Jon Brown: On what’s out there so that that certainly helped us keep everybody you know fully employed fully paid through the whole thing that was, that was a challenge, but, uh, but having some diversity was was helpful there.
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Yeah.
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Jon Brown: Am I allowed to segue you into a nice comment there because I
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David Vogelpohl: Please. Yeah, go for it. Yeah. Any of the any of their responses. Go for it.
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Jon Brown: Yeah, and Nina chimed in there that with her client base. She discounted some rates for them because her client base includes a lot of photographers
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Jon Brown: And people like that who weren’t necessarily getting work during the pandemic, which is an interesting
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Jon Brown: Thing is, I think you you talked about how some freelancers and some agencies were going gangbusters, and some are really suffering and I think
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Jon Brown: You have to think about what their client base is. And so it. A lot of our client base was reinvesting in marketing and doing online sales and things like that. And so that grew, but we don’t have many freelancers and solo printers out there who are, you know, photographers creatives.
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Jon Brown: We have a few Professional Practices, but it’s a different client base in that regard. And I think that really changed how people in the web development side shared through the pandemic.
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, I think that’s a good point. In my experience, talking to folks, it’s like it had a lot to do like how you’re dealing with. It has a lot to do with your customer base and how they’re dealing with it.
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David Vogelpohl: You know WP Engine. We have clients kind of across the whole span of the universe, and they’re obviously certain segments are suffering than others. That’s a good point.
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David Vogelpohl: Maybe, maybe one suggestion would be thinking about other segments that aren’t suffering as bad. Maybe expanding your the type of clients you target.
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David Vogelpohl: So liked how you talked about using some of that downtime to work on other revenue streams for your business. I think that’s another good tip.
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David Vogelpohl: My personal tips I’ve done you know I ran an agency for five years for those that are unfamiliar with my background.
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David Vogelpohl: But I had, I guess for suggestions. This one was actually really successful for me, I would call bigger agencies and ask if they have any overflow work.
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David Vogelpohl: If, particularly if you’re a freelancer, you know, we talked about how there’s agencies that have a lot of work right now and some that hardly have any
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David Vogelpohl: Trying to find the ones that do because they actually might need help, right now, and we were actually able to score some really big clients that way. We got insurance that way. We got pioneer electronics that way.
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David Vogelpohl: And so that that’s a really, it can be a really easy and fast path to get new work for you in your freelancer small agency, we would also email old clients and suggest something new, they could do to improve their site. I saw quite a few
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David Vogelpohl: Folks in the meeting kind of suggest the same thing. You can join agency programs for like things like web hose or plugins or whatever because I’ll often have directories that can help you build leads
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David Vogelpohl: Cold email businesses in your area. I know that that’s sometimes a little awkward and you really want to be careful with how you do this, and certainly not violate spam laws, but just reach out to businesses in your area right
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David Vogelpohl: Folks often get these emails from people offering web development or design services, but they’re from people, you know, anywhere in the country around the world for them.
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David Vogelpohl: And so sometimes it’s nice to say like, Hey, I’m down the street. I can help you out. If you need some help. Have you ever used that john or carry like the local approach.
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Carrie Dils: I yes
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Carrie Dils: For a while the majority of my client work was coming from.
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Carrie Dils: Local customers. And that was, that was good. It was a great way to build relationships within the community. And that’s actually how I found a lot of the business. To begin with, was
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Carrie Dils: It was not a chamber of commerce group, but something similar for female entrepreneurs and women owned businesses and
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Carrie Dils: Yeah, that works. It wasn’t necessarily cold, but it was calculated
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David Vogelpohl: By you john
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Jon Brown: I’ve known a few people over the years, who use like chamber of commerce or Junior Chamber of Commerce and
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Jon Brown: Some of those. What’s the there’s another professional organization.
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Jon Brown: For almost all of their, their leads and they’re very hyper local I’ve never wanted local clientele.
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Jon Brown: Mostly because as you to know I’m nomadic and
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Jon Brown: We’re all a remote team and
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Jon Brown: Advertising local for a distributed small agency doesn’t make sense because invariably they expect something different than what we offer
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David Vogelpohl: Lancer and like to interject.
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Jon Brown: I do
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David Vogelpohl: travel a lot like your
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David Vogelpohl: Evenings
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Jon Brown: When it’s when it’s not pandemic I travel a lot.
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Jon Brown: That there’s a whole different stories there. But, um, I was gonna say no, I think, reaching out local works well. We’ve got a few requests from freelancers and stuff desperately looking for work. I wish I could help them out. But we were
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Jon Brown: Tapped Out keeping our own people busy. We’ve never done outbound kind of marketing cold calling or anything like that but
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Jon Brown: A friend of mine rich stats, who I’ve met at Cabo press years ago does a ton of that and gets fantastic workout. It’s like nobody does it. Nobody does it well you know he’s domestic I think in Colorado, Boulder something and
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Jon Brown: But he does that reach out via paper mail in a fantastic way. And I think that’s a huge differentiator.
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Jon Brown: You can find your own niche right and he has
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Jon Brown: And it’s not cold emailing people because I think cold emails we all just completely ignore I get a dozen of those, a week from Ukraine and Latvia and India and all over and
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David Vogelpohl: I know straight. Don’t you think you’d be more likely to read the email and consider it.
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Jon Brown: I do. I think if it was down the street. I’d reach out more personally by phone or by mail than an email but
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Jon Brown: It’s a thing like we all have to delete 100 spam emails a day. It seems like
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David Vogelpohl: Yet, I’m not advocating spam at the point in my tip was like just
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David Vogelpohl: Out to. Yeah.
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Jon Brown: I know we all have a different threshold of what we call spam. Right. And for me, spam is anything. I didn’t request in my inbox.
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Jon Brown: But yeah, it’s not. I mean, it’s not
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Jon Brown: But anyway, no. Those are great tips I think those are great tips.
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, I think with the, you know, I love that discussion around. I had a lot of success with i didn’t i didn’t have success with Chamber of Commerce. And that was just a whole other story but I went to tons of meetups and got a lot of clients that way.
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David Vogelpohl: And it was a long game. I had to go to the meetups every month for, you know, months on end to start getting good lead flows, but once I establish those relationships.
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David Vogelpohl: It was great. But that’s dried up. I talked to a gentleman in the UK who said he got his clients, just go into the coffee shops and pubs around town.
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David Vogelpohl: And he would just like stumble into people and get to know them and then get a client that way. And that’s all dried up.
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David Vogelpohl: So it’s really focusing on these these kind of virtual type strategies and the meetups don’t really provide that avenue anymore. So I think like cold outreach is probably a lot more people’s list these days.
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David Vogelpohl: Let’s see who else had some good stuff here.
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David Vogelpohl: Looks like Sally say she was insanely busy all year. So she was one of those folks who had
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David Vogelpohl: Ended up getting more work because of the pandemic.
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David Vogelpohl: Pitching old clients work that was a big deal for us back in the day to we would come up with a new idea. We just look at their website and be like, if you did this, you could potentially
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David Vogelpohl: Get more success in email and that was always helpful. What about care plans and maintenance packages looks like some people, Sally, does it there’s down. What are your thoughts on that will start with john this time.
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Jon Brown: Yeah, we’ve always done that and it is a good
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Jon Brown: Stable revenue flow. And the interesting thing is at least as we structure it we don’t make a lot of profit on the maintenance portion of it.
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Jon Brown: Um, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s a stable amount of chunk of money which is nice, but the amount of time we spend actually updating sites managing sites testing sites.
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Jon Brown: It’s not super high profit. What it does, though, is it maintains in the an ongoing relationship with those clients that then asked for services work.
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Jon Brown: On a regular basis. And so that is way more profitable for us.
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Jon Brown: I’ve seen all sorts of structures out there for maintenance and some people you know do retainer type agreements, we don’t. Our, our maintenance is one to two hours a month.
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Jon Brown: Depending on the client. And so that’s about what they get in terms of value.
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Jon Brown: But it’s really that lead into more services work because they call us and they’re like, let’s do another hundred hours of this or that and
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Jon Brown: That’s the real benefit there so it keeps those clients engaged.
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Jon Brown: I think I mentioned this, maybe in that shapers meeting that
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Jon Brown: You know there are
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Jon Brown: Consultants out there who just want to build it and walk away and they don’t want anything to do with the ongoing services.
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Jon Brown: And it works for them. I know they’re very successful doing that.
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Jon Brown: I think Bill Ericsson is the person who always comes to mind like that, although he does do some ongoing work, it’s not it’s not none.
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Jon Brown: But he really likes the building of the big news site. Um, and I think it just speaks to the diversity of agency service offerings out there freelancer offerings out there.
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, that makes sense. I know a lot of people are like, leaning in and the maintenance and care packages and reselling hosting and some people like do well. I mean, if you were
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David Vogelpohl: What is it charging 100 bucks a month and score 100 customers doing that. I mean, you’re talking $10,000 a month. That’s not bad stream of revenue in addition to custom, obviously, in addition to the customer. You might also get
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David Vogelpohl: So I was just curious if people were leaning into that more with the pandemic and other revenue streams drying up. The other thing I like about it is it’s less
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David Vogelpohl: Volatile right if people are kind of paying on a monthly basis you it’s a less volatile than the number of people that might be coming to you with, you know, I don’t know 235 $10,000
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David Vogelpohl: Website do web design you know project insight for me. I felt like it was a really interesting strategy, considering the volatility, we’ve had
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David Vogelpohl: Because that would, you know, and having run an agency with like 22 employees. I knew how volatile. It can be stressful. It can be
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David Vogelpohl: To keep making those numbers keep getting payroll on all that other stuff. And so having that stability and revenues seem like you know strategy worth pursuing. For whoever
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David Vogelpohl: That might think that’s a good fit for them for the sake of time, let’s move on to the next question we asked the shapers in your agency freelance work.
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David Vogelpohl: Do you sell any technology as part of your offering to clients. In other words like themes plugins hosting
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David Vogelpohl: In if so, do you require your customer urs to require their own licenses and services before starting aside switch to their own license.
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David Vogelpohl: So, so far, so just is basically in your freelance and agency work. Do you have the clients by their tech and services directly, or do you sell it to them. So that was basically the just
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David Vogelpohl: Carry will go with you this time. What was your response client buys everything and owns everything, or do you sell it to them.
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Carrie Dils: Done it both ways. I’ve never resold hosting for that relationship or I want that relationship between my client and the host and
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David Vogelpohl: Right.
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Carrie Dils: In the middle
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Carrie Dils: I think john I think you touched on this and one of your comments, but the if something I’ve had so many people come to me over the years and you know the story of the developer ran off or whatever. And it was they couldn’t access
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Carrie Dils: Their website, they didn’t know what to do.
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Carrie Dils: That’s different wanted to get caught in the middle of that like. And so, as always, up front like
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Carrie Dils: I don’t have ownership of your thing, you have complete control. I’m here for whatever you need. But if I’m hit by a bus or whatever.
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Carrie Dils: Your site will keep on ticking.
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Carrie Dils: So that was why I never resold hosting, but on the licensing side.
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Carrie Dils: It’s really frustrating to because I want to same as hosting I would like my clients to have their own licenses, but there’s no elegant way of passing along billing to the client.
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Carrie Dils: For instance, I had a woo commerce shop or project. A couple of years ago and I needed to buy various add ons and these are annual subscriptions. And so I wanted my clients credit card on the account.
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Carrie Dils: So that means I’m creating an account under
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Carrie Dils: One of my email addresses getting their credit card. It’s just
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Carrie Dils: Not a good process.
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Carrie Dils: When flywheel came on to the
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Carrie Dils: came onto the scene back in 2013 or whatever it was they introduced client billing, which is the slickest thing I’ve seen
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Carrie Dils: In a way that lets you is the technology provider. Get in there, make decisions about what services they need and a billing is sent to the client and a super easy interface, and I wish more
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Carrie Dils: More companies would take that approach.
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, it’s hard to do that license passes. I had a similar thing with reselling hosting and my agency days where I was like, I don’t want to get the middle of that if there’s a fight.
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David Vogelpohl: But you know, I know a lot of folks have a lot of success with it. I mean, you kind of talked about that white label thing that file has it’s now called gross sweet, by the way.
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David Vogelpohl: But it’s really designed around agencies and Mr monthly recurring revenue or Mr that stability and revenue.
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David Vogelpohl: Which I think is it which is critical, particularly for the agency’s perspective, but you’re balancing these kind of ownership questions with the clients.
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David Vogelpohl: John you said we generally don’t sell technology to our clients ellipses. Why don’t you tell us a little bit more about why you don’t sell technology, your clients.
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Jon Brown: I’m massively guilty of too many ellipses, and my writing. So
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David Vogelpohl: We had four five dots. So it’s not Lucy’s
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Jon Brown: Always stream of consciousness. But, uh,
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Jon Brown: But to the point we you know we generally ask our clients to buy licenses directly the
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Jon Brown: We just don’t want to get into the issue of renewals failing or any of that.
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Jon Brown: As well as the bus factor that Terry mentioned
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David Vogelpohl: Say the lottery factor like you win.
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Jon Brown: The Lottery factor like if I win the lottery and I retire. I buy an island in the tropics and never see the internet. Again, I don’t want someone to lose their, their access to their bread and butter websites.
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David Vogelpohl: Not very specific retirement plan HERE, JOHN I
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Jon Brown: I do it, it all comes together. Trust me.
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Jon Brown: But now there are a few things where we have developer bulk licenses like Gravity Forms or something like that that can be used on as many sites as we want and
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Jon Brown: There’s no real support burden for us to add it. So for those maintenance customers. Again, only the ones who are paying us on a monthly basis for maintenance. They also gain access to that licensing.
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Jon Brown: Of licenses that we buy anyway.
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Jon Brown: And it’s part of the value add there. But when it’s a one off license like we’re like, oh, we need the events calendar for this one site and
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Jon Brown: Then the client needs to buy that license correctly. So it’s a little bit of a mix. And when it comes to hosting domains, all of that. No, we won’t touch that and
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Jon Brown: The simple reason is what Kerry said it’s the, the risk of somebody going away and having the keys to that.
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Jon Brown: Years ago. I mean, I’m talking 1015 years ago, probably closer to 15. There are a few hosts that did kind of shared hosting reseller stuff where they offered to bill.
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Jon Brown: None of it was good flywheel was the first one that came out where it was good and really was a good solution for folks that had those clients that needed to be on 10 $20 a month hosting and you can resell it and build it in a sensible controlled way.
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Jon Brown: So anyway, it’s
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Jon Brown: Again, it goes back to their such diversity out there. I’ve learned not to to Pooh, pooh any of them as being a bad business model. Oh.
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, I mean recently interesting has been
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David Vogelpohl: As you say, real quickly reselling hosting has been
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David Vogelpohl: You know, kind of bread and butter for agencies forever. And that kind of holding the keys part, you mentioned is the reason because it’s harder for customers to leave you is the kind of traditional logic there.
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Jon Brown: Yeah, and I think from our early days, and this goes back to john Hawkins started nine seeds was we don’t want to hold those keys. We don’t want clients ever beholden to us.
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Jon Brown: No long term contracts, no lock in know we’ll build it for free and you’ll pay us $1,000 a month forever. It’s just not the business model we we ever wanted to be on the other side. So we never wanted to be on this side of it either.
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Jon Brown: And it is I get a bit judgmental, even though I just said I wouldn’t it just seems very it’s old school, but I think it’s a bad part of the old school that we should get away from the lock in that that reselling hosting tends to be
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David Vogelpohl: Like I feel like if I went to do the agency over again that I absolutely would have recurring fees for clients in some sort of like hosting plus maintenance thing.
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David Vogelpohl: And then stack those up over time, you know, because the challenging part of growing an agency is
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David Vogelpohl: You get a project done and you’re done. And then you gotta find the next one to keep your business growing and you’re just chasing that over and over and over again.
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David Vogelpohl: I felt like not having the recurring revenue in my agency just made it like 1000 times harder. I mean, we had retainers, and things like that. I’m not saying like we didn’t have those things. But like
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David Vogelpohl: To have that kind of baked in recurring revenue automatically build low touch for each client seems very attractive.
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Jon Brown: Oh, I’m 100% behind recurring revenue, that is, but I think that it should be like
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Jon Brown: So hard just to speak about it.
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Jon Brown: Politely i guess i think it should be based on the services provided, right, which is the maintenance side of it.
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Jon Brown: I don’t own a data center. I don’t have DevOps engineers, you shouldn’t be paying me for the work those people. Do I just. But the flip side of it is, I really do wish that
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Jon Brown: Hosting WP Engine does a better than average job of it fly will did an even better job than that with the whole having a resale structure that was client like end user and client friendly.
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Jon Brown: Again, I want I feel best when all of my clients can fire me in a single click.
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Jon Brown: Like it sounds silly. Right.
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David Vogelpohl: I know it’s a it’s
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David Vogelpohl: A position of confidence right you’re confident in your word.
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah yeah
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Jon Brown: I none of them do. Or, you know, very rarely
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Carrie Dils: They do, but
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Jon Brown: Um, and when they do good, you know, if you don’t have a good feeling, working with us. Then move on because it’s both sides of that business relationship need to be positive or it’s going to go further and further south so
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David Vogelpohl: Those are good insights Carrie. I’m going to start with you in the next question for the sake of time, we’ll move to the next question here in a second. But I just wanted to kind of recap with some others thought
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David Vogelpohl: Nita has clients needed Carter has clients by their by their own Sally gets so she doesn’t resell either kind of has clients buy it on their own. See here.
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Jon Brown: Anybody in there who who resold hosting directly
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David Vogelpohl: We did a survey of agencies recently at WP Engine. I’m not seeing any here that say specifically that they resell hosting, although we didn’t ask that question specifically
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David Vogelpohl: But 62% of the agencies and freelancers, and we tell about 5000 of them, and they were all WordPress folks 62% of end result in some way. Yeah.
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Jon Brown: So I think it just, I mean, when we we have a couple clients now on kind of custom hosting setups on digital ocean and AWS and even them. We have their they have their own billing agreement with with the host there. We do all the maintenance. We manage it, but
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Jon Brown: I still wouldn’t call that resolved. But anyway, moving on. Sorry.
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, no worries. But yeah, to your point. Now it doesn’t look like anybody else had mentioned that. But it looks like probably that at least from the
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David Vogelpohl: Air quote licenses for a second because of the GPS thing and how that works with what you buy, but
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David Vogelpohl: But for the most part people are having clients kind of by their own versions of those things. So, good good good feedback there and that’s this is just for for everyone listening. This is important to us because as people use the studio press themes
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David Vogelpohl: We had a big conversation around like just as custom blocks Pro and the portability of blocks getting feedback and how people interact with clients super helpful for us as we think about how we position and create these products moving forward.
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David Vogelpohl: Next up is what are your best tips for improving site speed for woo commerce stores in general or specifically related to Genesis products.
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David Vogelpohl: So one of the areas that we’re looking at on the roadmap for Genesis related things is how well we work with woo commerce what capabilities we give for
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David Vogelpohl: WordPress e commerce stores. And so we really just wanted to kind of get a feel from the shapers, at least from the performance perspective.
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David Vogelpohl: To kind of kick off where they thought the can I best points of optimization were Carrie. Let’s go with you first this time, I don’t know, I’m not seeing that you responded here. Do you have favorite
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Carrie Dils: econ. Well, I agree with what Sally gets mentioned that she’s not building woo commerce sites that have just a zillion customers. So it’s not like a Color Pop or somebody that’s going to have a huge Black Friday sale and
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Carrie Dils: So no performance. I have no performance at that level, but the one that my kin burger pointed out that I’d hundred percent agree with is removing unnecessary scripts.
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Carrie Dils: So woo commerce is Script heavy and being able to take off scripts on pages where you don’t necessarily need is a quick way I
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David Vogelpohl: Mentioned like removing cart fragments. I know that’s a favorite go to for a lot of folks and for those unfamiliar with that with what that is. Basically, it’s a technique where you
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David Vogelpohl: Disable the auto updating cart on static pages which will essentially make the page cashable and work in your CDN and stuff like that. And so that’s that’s a go to for people that are trying to optimize stores.
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David Vogelpohl: The second one was, oh, the styles and scripts. Is that what you’re referencing carry
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Carrie Dils: Mm hmm.
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David Vogelpohl: Gotcha. And he has a whole list here and
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David Vogelpohl: Here is the generator tag, all kinds of stuff.
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Carrie Dils: Yeah, let’s see, for anybody that is listening and wanted to see the scripts that he posted in the genesis slack. It’s the e commerce channel and he actually post the code snippets, he uses
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David Vogelpohl: What is that you see that in these early January, maybe
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah yeah yeah he’s got the full list in there. What about you, JOHN What’s your favorite
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Jon Brown: Uh, I agree with everything that Mike shared there we remove lots of scripts. I think that one of them’s keep in mind is, it’s a lot of the same stuff we do for performance just in woo commerce or WordPress in general.
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Jon Brown: Yeah, I mean, the other thing to keep in mind is that just like WordPress, we’d like to say like woo commerce let you shoot yourself in the foot.
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Jon Brown: You can do things that are
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Jon Brown: Just there’s no way to make performance like that in woo commerce. It’s often variations. People do bizarre things with were variations and you it just certain pieces of woo commerce don’t scale well if you use them wrong. There are ways of doing it right, but
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Jon Brown: But we see people like you know trying to do 50 variations on every product and then have 5000 products and
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Jon Brown: It just
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Jon Brown: It compounds. When you make those database queries to get a bit technical, that it just instantly becomes a massive performance problem, but it’s, it says we say in WordPress doing it wrong. Like sometimes you have to know how to do things right and it’ll let you do things wrong.
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Jon Brown: And you’ll suffer because of it. So part of that just having experienced with them commerce and knowing what to do and not do it. It’s hard to articulate, all of that.
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Jon Brown: Apologies. I wish I had written down is better tips but
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David Vogelpohl: That’s okay. It’s kind of funny like Nita and Sally both pointed out that most of their clients are kind of smaller stores where they build the
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David Vogelpohl: And they actually don’t worry about they do their normal performance optimization kinda like you pointed out john
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David Vogelpohl: That they were kind of observing that without a lot of traffic and without a lot of maybe products or orders in the database that
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David Vogelpohl: That it that it’s just not a problem and kind of just their normal build process ends up building performance sites. What about exporting those old order tables. JOHN Is that are carriers. That’s something I’ve done before.
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Carrie Dils: I have not john. How about you.
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Jon Brown: We’ve experimented with both the custom order tables and custom product tables. I’m in didn’t find it that different. We really hoped it would be a huge performance benefit.
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Jon Brown: And that may just be that we were trying on sites where it didn’t help on a bigger side, it might have. But then it’s just the risk of
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Jon Brown: Is it fully supported by woo commerce is API will be long term supported
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Jon Brown: I still want to see those things in core those performance enhancements fully in core and fully supported by the whole massive extension ecosystem or plugin ecosystem woo commerce.
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah. What am I, you know, it’s interesting when you talk about like those big order tables and sites that have a lot of orders over time, just in general.
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David Vogelpohl: Like, I’m sure you all have experiences at some point. But what happens with a lot of times is as admin users the store owners go in the back end run some financial report.
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David Vogelpohl: And what happens to the site when they’re running the report and WP admin is the entire site gets slower even crashes and the worst case scenarios.
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Jon Brown: We have a
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Jon Brown: We have an e commerce. Commerce client that does live auctions and when they do these live auctions of sporting cards like player cards and that kind of thing.
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Jon Brown: They have massive traffic. They do massive revenue.
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Jon Brown: That is like one 10th of what happens when he goes into the back end and updates everything
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Jon Brown: Because they’ll have he updates like hundreds of products at a time with dozens of card variations and stuff.
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Jon Brown: But you actually look at the server load and and you know to use a visual it’s like okay server loads at 1%
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Jon Brown: Comes along they do a live auction. It goes up like 10% for an hour drops back down. When the auctions over that at midnight he comes in and does all the updating the admin and the server load peaks to 90%
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Jon Brown: It’s just, it’s just one admin in there doing updates, but it’s all these inserts into the database tables that are just way more intensive than all the reads that the customers are doing when they’re buying
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Jon Brown: But yeah, it’s just the admin to your point can be a huge performance. We’ve seen a bunch of different sites, not just that one.
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David Vogelpohl: That’s why I like to use things, at least from the reporting perspective, like metric to quote advocate the gentleman in his name, who is Bryce
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David Vogelpohl: Bryce Yeah.
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David Vogelpohl: Just because when you’re running your report, you’re doing it outside of WP admin. So basically the way metric works is
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David Vogelpohl: It transfers your order data basically into metric. And then you when you’re running the reports, you’re not taxing your WordPress instance glue is the other one that does this. Well, right.
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Jon Brown: Yeah, we use
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Jon Brown: We tried using glue years ago couple years ago, I guess.
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Jon Brown: It was really complicated. It was kind of like the Google analytics solution for woo commerce and like those of us who spent time in Google Analytics know that
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Jon Brown: 90% of it just seems too complicated to be useful. Um, that’s kind of how I came away from glue personally metric. It’s simpler, easier way more accessible to your average store owner, I think.
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David Vogelpohl: Prices velocity, a new features and metric is insane. I don’t know how that guy gets any sleep.
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David Vogelpohl: He deliver so much value so quickly. I think
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Jon Brown: He really goes
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, he’s he’s awesome
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David Vogelpohl: All right, we’ll move on from website performance and speed and talk about econ performance with revenue. So the reason this is important to us here at Studio press and WP Engine is because
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David Vogelpohl: You know, our themes and the genesis blocks, really, really their job ultimately at the end of the day is to help you sell something so we really wanted to kind of understand how folks thought about
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David Vogelpohl: Revenue performance as well. So this question says, What are your best tips for increasing the conversion rates for the WordPress e commerce site to optimize, what can the genesis community do to increase sales on their e commerce sites.
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David Vogelpohl: JOHN I have to go with you first this time because you’re the first comment you say show
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Jon Brown: Yeah, it was very verbose answer. It was kind of metaphorical, isn’t it, it’s
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David Vogelpohl: apropos for sure.
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David Vogelpohl: I show less
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Jon Brown: Just because we’ve had the we found that backing off some of the features helps conversions, especially when you’re dealing with simple stores that only have you know 2030 products on
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Jon Brown: showing all of the upsell and the related products and the chat pop ups in the light, it, it just at some point you have too much noise. It hurts your conversions, at least from what we’ve seen
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Jon Brown: So when I say show less. It’s just be clean and simple and realize that
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Jon Brown: Don’t show extra information, unless your clients asking for it or your customers. And so he’s asking for
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David Vogelpohl: You and Patrick Garmin
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, he had the same exact kind of response when I interviewed him on a podcast. Not long ago, and his was in his was more around like
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David Vogelpohl: Speed optimization. He’s like, just start cutting stuff out and see if your revenues infected isn’t path to get a faster site, but he said it often will result actually in higher sales. Yeah.
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Jon Brown: I mean, we’ve seen it multiple times. And it’s a matter of
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Jon Brown: Yeah, just don’t interfere with your customer buying the thing and trying to get it. It’s kind of related like one of the store owner fallacies. Is that your homepage really matters.
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Jon Brown: Sometimes it does, but most of the time, like the clients going directly to the product page worried about optimizing the product page in the checkout process.
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Jon Brown: And just less friction costume to the all the time just reduce friction to sail.
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David Vogelpohl: Blogs blogs, a lot like that. I tell our content team, the number one entry point to the blog is the post.
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Jon Brown: Not the blog. Yeah.
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Jon Brown: Oh yeah, like in the amount of time we spend on homepages because
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Jon Brown: It’s still too much. We have a bunch of publisher clients and their constant, like, oh, we need to read our homepage your layout. I’m like no one goes to New York Time like people don’t even go to The New York Times homepage, like, you know, like they follow a Twitter link to the post.
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David Vogelpohl: So before, and I think
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David Vogelpohl: With it before you can do a web design project or optimization project to look at your analytics data first to see where folks are coming in and buying from
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David Vogelpohl: What about you, Carrie, how are we make more money on econ
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Carrie Dils: Um,
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Carrie Dils: Excuse me, I like the idea of that you added about live chatting. I’d never thought about that.
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David Vogelpohl: Because everyone else said they didn’t like live chat.
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David Vogelpohl: Well, like the only one who supports me here.
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Carrie Dils: Well, it’s really annoying when you go to do live chat. I did this just yesterday on an e commerce site.
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Carrie Dils: Went to shop. I had a question about the product. They’ve got live or a chat button click it and they want my name and my email.
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Jon Brown: This was
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Carrie Dils: A form just to get through the live chat and I’m giving you that information like
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Carrie Dils: About just be helpful and not like but a barrier. So I’m you know bounced and went to your competitors site. But anyways, a live chat, to your point, where there’s someone actually on the other end and not a bot.
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Would be
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Carrie Dils: I think super valuable for certain kinds of sites.
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Jon Brown: Yeah, I think, Carrie, if you recall my comment was, as long as it’s not fo live chat.
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Jon Brown: Yes. If you want to know how to tick off a customer.
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Jon Brown: Get their email get their information and then say a chat response time 12 hours will email you
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Jon Brown: Know,
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Jon Brown: Either be live chat or don’t, but don’t pretend you’re live chat, because you’re just gonna, you’re just going to upset your customers and it is what carries saying don’t ask for information up front, I get it, but
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Jon Brown: Yeah, I mean we we use a guilt on a bunch of sites and cart abandonment is a big conversion for us. I have all of the things out there. I think the cart abandonment emails are a
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Jon Brown: big opportunity for e commerce.
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Jon Brown: I’ve seen the numbers like or, you know, it converts. And the thing is is that whether it’s a pop up whatever you’ve got to get their email somewhere right
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Jon Brown: To get that into the cart abandonment email.
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Jon Brown: And I don’t think we talked about this and shapers but I’d say that that’s maybe number one.
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Jon Brown: I think did woo commerce, just add some cart abandonment stuff of their own. Did I see either for woo commerce calm or somewhere something new.
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I didn’t see that.
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David Vogelpohl: That part that closely.
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Jon Brown: No, I’m
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Carrie Dils: I have a confession to make.
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Yeah.
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Carrie Dils: Sometimes on big ticket items will abandon the cart, just to see if I’ll get
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David Vogelpohl: That’s okay, let’s
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Carrie Dils: Bring me back.
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David Vogelpohl: People like
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David Vogelpohl: Like the like it. I feel like that when you figure that out there. I feel like you’re more likely to buy where you thought you were gonna buy anyway as your point.
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Carrie Dils: I gotta buy anyway. So I’m not in a hurry. Might as well give it 48 hours and see
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Jon Brown: A couple sites. I know they will send me a 20% cart abandonment coupon.
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Jon Brown: I’ve done the same thing. I know, to me, I
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David Vogelpohl: One of my favorite promotions. We did a WP Engine was a coupon code that the only way you could get it was entering the Kenobi I saying that right OB code.
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Jon Brown: Konami code.
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David Vogelpohl: Konami code. The Konami cheat code on your keyboard on the website and it would reveal pop up with a special discount
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David Vogelpohl: That was a fun promotion but band and cart, big, big, big it was mentioned here through the conversation john obviously that was a big deal.
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David Vogelpohl: Live Chat obviously when done respectfully in the right way.
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David Vogelpohl: Let’s see who else here some good tips.
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Carrie Dils: You mentioned
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Carrie Dils: Price like a be price testing.
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Carrie Dils: Which is
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David Vogelpohl: A B testing in general. They certainly around pricing as well. Yeah.
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Carrie Dils: Yeah, which is interesting. The only
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Carrie Dils: Going back to low traffic sites or maybe not low traffic but like Sally and neither were talking about earlier on e commerce, I’d say we’re building, you have to get like a certain threshold of traffic before
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Carrie Dils: I feel like that is meaningful data.
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David Vogelpohl: That’s I think one of the issues just with any site. I mean even WP Engine, the size of our company and traffic, like when you start getting down into like sub pages.
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David Vogelpohl: You know, getting enough traffic to get an answer quickly can be challenging. And if you’re a small site that can be almost impossible if you have 3040 products or even more.
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David Vogelpohl: And you’re a small site without a lot of traffic that means each individual products not getting a lot of traffic.
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David Vogelpohl: The way I’ve dealt with that in the past is to just either test the product page lock, stock and barrel. In other words, I’m just going to test one template across all pages and then kind of collect the results that way so you can get to an answer more quickly.
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David Vogelpohl: The other way depending on your advertising budget, you could just like concentrate all your ad spend to send a one product and kind of test them one at a time. If you have your ad spend kind of spread out amongst products.
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David Vogelpohl: But yeah, getting enough traffic in general is harder to testing, but on any particular product, especially if you don’t have a lot of traffic to begin with. It might be impossible actually to get that kind of answer.
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Jon Brown: Do you think there’s a general number for the number of page views, you need to have useful data on a a b tests like that.
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, there’s all kinds of folks that, you know, publish information around like what’s that sample size that you need.
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David Vogelpohl: I’m not confident enough to give you like a number, but usually it’s in the 10s of thousands. But I actually less concerned about the sample size as I am between the delta
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David Vogelpohl: If you look at AB test over time what your hand if you’ve run them before you seen this is like the first few days there’s like a what seems to be a clear winner.
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David Vogelpohl: And then two days later the other ones, the clear winner and then over time they kind of come together and the saying, I like to use is nobody ever got rich making buttons orange.
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David Vogelpohl: You’re not going to do these little micro tests you see these in these like AV testing and conversion rate optimization talks are people like, oh, just make your buttons orange or
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David Vogelpohl: Use pictures of people where they’re looking at the call to action like these are all great tips but, like, the reality is, you’re not going to get to a major change.
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David Vogelpohl: Through those kind of techniques and then you’re not going to be able to detect the change unless you have a ton of traffic which most people don’t have
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David Vogelpohl: Now, the other way, though, that you can detect a change as if you make a drastic change to your website. So let’s say by sake of example that we change your ecommerce site homepage to only have one period on it.
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David Vogelpohl: Well, it’s obviously going to fail, and he is clearly detectable. So what the advice I give to folks when they AB test is don’t test small things don’t test these little tweaks don’t test one to be heard in the sessions.
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David Vogelpohl: Test the crap out of it. Just like change everything about the page, change the value proposition words of the most powerful weapon in a be testing.
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David Vogelpohl: Your layout your design, unless you’re coming from a really bad place typically isn’t going to get you there, how you position your products. But the main thing. And we do this a lot of WP Engine is
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David Vogelpohl: Don’t test little things test huge things that are very easily detectable. And that will help to abate the reliance, you have on having a huge sample size.
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David Vogelpohl: Does that make sense. Yeah.
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David Vogelpohl: So yeah, like a, we call it searching for mountains and valleys. You’re not searching for, you know, potholes and road bumps right you’re looking for big giant things like go hard on it because it’s also a speed game like a slow site takes a long time to do an A, B tests.
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David Vogelpohl: And so the bigger your tests are, the faster you’ll get those answers and you need to sequence three tests.
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David Vogelpohl: Eight out of 10 AB test fail to beat the A. So you got to test often and quick, which means test big
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David Vogelpohl: Alright, next question is, woo commerce, how you build most of your e commerce sites, if not, what do you use and why it seemed like Shopify got a lot of votes when we’re not using woo commerce, but Carrie. What about you. Sometimes we do, sometimes Shopify. What’s your go to
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Carrie Dils: I haven’t really gotten into Shopify I like add for most things
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David Vogelpohl: We mentioned, etc.
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Carrie Dils: And then the whole ball of wax that is woo commerce.
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Carrie Dils: John. How about you.
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Jon Brown: Wax is such a nice term for it.
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Jon Brown: No, I like woo commerce. It’s interesting. I said this in shapers I thought a little bit more about it.
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Jon Brown: The vast majority that we do these days is when commerce, years and years ago.
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Jon Brown: We did a lot more add but then we’ve always had a heavy business and membership sites. And I think it goes to the question like,
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Jon Brown: I think when we think about e commerce, we often first think about selling product. But then after that, realize that e commerce is really also membership sites and LM s sites and all of these things. If you’re charging money on digital product only versus physical product.
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Jon Brown: And so now we still do some restrict content pro we use member press. We use add
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Jon Brown: That’s the bulk of it. The, the things that we don’t touch anymore. Our web commerce Ecuador.
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Jon Brown: What was the other one for a while, shop.
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Jon Brown: So there are product based e commerce plugins out there that
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Jon Brown: I’d say are are
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Jon Brown: Not in use by us at all.
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Jon Brown: To avoid using the
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David Vogelpohl: Yeah. Debbie engine customers is aided by woo commerce and add when it comes to job sites like far and away, I’m sure that’s true for all WordPress.
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David Vogelpohl: For the sake of time, we’ll go ahead and move on to the next question.
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David Vogelpohl: Real quickly but it says you’re using the block editor with woo commerce stores, if so, what content use cases for the block editor most helpful, what problems to users have with e commerce.
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David Vogelpohl: That would be interesting to solve with a block editor reading through the responses. I feel like most people were saying they weren’t using the block editor very much in a e commerce context with maybe some exceptions. How did y’all interpret the responses there.
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Jon Brown: Well, I think that if you look at woo commerce blocks are kind of designed where you can throw them into posts or pages.
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Jon Brown: And it’s just not. I don’t think that addresses what people want, which is the ability to really easily customize the single template for products.
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Jon Brown: I think that that’s more of a like that could be a blocks based template or a full site editing kind of template. I’m sure it seems will say that everything
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Jon Brown: comes to fruition. There’ll be the ability to build a template, just for your product page and then all of those blocks will be more useful because
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Jon Brown: LITTLE TAB thing. You can put wherever you want, and you can move your prior pricing stuff around and move your a gallery around but it’s like it’s one of the problems that everybody has with new commerce, out of the box. Is it that product pages so rigid and blocks doesn’t solve that.
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Jon Brown: So I think that’s why, at least us we we don’t feel we use the blocks much because what we really want is a GUI interface to change the product pages. Yeah, that makes sense.
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David Vogelpohl: And as we think about blogs that feature e com is definitely on our list.
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Jon Brown: Means
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David Vogelpohl: It’s helpful to hear you know kind of what those pain points are. Alright, last question for the shapers and Kevin will start for you with you on this one. What third party plugins, would you want to integrate your custom blocks with
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Carrie Dils: I’m
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Carrie Dils: On the e commerce side easy digital downloads, for sure.
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Carrie Dils: Right now the their customer their blocks are basically. And I think it’s the same as we’ve commerce just applications of block versions of widgets.
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David Vogelpohl: So everybody’s first starting point with blocks right turn those widgets into blocks.
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Exactly.
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David Vogelpohl: Like Sally says the event calendar.
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Your
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David Vogelpohl: Let’s see what else we have here.
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Jon Brown: And there I think some of it goes back to, I was just saying it’s it’s the context, you use the blocks right like okay so we have product blocks and we have event blocks and we have all these things. But how often do you need to stick those in a post
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Jon Brown: It’s really more about design.
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David Vogelpohl: Right, it’s more modular type use cases versus like a static layout, essentially, yeah.
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Jon Brown: I think we’ll get there.
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David Vogelpohl: All right, well, if you have a. So the reason we asked this question, by the way, is Rob stenson who is on the product marketing team for Genesis custom blocks.
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David Vogelpohl: Is making a bunch of demo blocks using Genesis custom blocks will give you the code and a write up on how he did it.
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David Vogelpohl: And he’s looking for custom blocks to create that integrate with technology. So if you go to Genesis custom blocks in the genesis slack instance
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David Vogelpohl: You can make suggestions there at Rob stenson and let him know if you have some examples, you’d like him to create as he plans that content for the future.
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David Vogelpohl: That’s it for the agenda for the shapers want to thank john for joining us today. JOHN. Thank you.
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Jon Brown: Thank you.
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David Vogelpohl: So glad you were able to make it. Carrie thank you as well.
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Carrie Dils: You betcha.
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David Vogelpohl: You like to learn more about what john is up to you can visit nine seeds calm. If you’d like to learn more about what Kerry is up to you can visit Carrie deals calm. Thanks everyone for listening.
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David Vogelpohl: And stay tuned for future episodes of The genesis community live cast again. This has been your host, David Vogel poll
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David Vogelpohl: I’ve been a proud member of the genesis community for over eight years. I lead Genesis WP Engine and I love helping the genesis community get better together with my friends from the shapers
As a reminder, the Genesis Shapers are a global, hand-selected, and diverse group of people representing companies from across the community who share a representative voice for the strategic direction of Genesis, which is combined with the feedback we receive directly from customers across social channels, and through Genesis WP on Slack.