Genesis Shapers: August 2020

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David Vogelpohl: Hello everyone and welcome to our very first video update on the Genesis shapers for this update, we’re going to be covering the meeting from the genesis shapers from August 2020

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David Vogelpohl: And for those who don’t know me, I’m David Vogel pole. I’ve been in the agenda proud to be in the genesis community for over eight years. I lead Genesis at WP Engine and I love helping the genesis community get better together with my friends from the shapers

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David Vogelpohl: Joining me today for this video update is a Genesis shaper and someone. I’m sure you all know quite well she’s infamous course provider on LinkedIn.

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David Vogelpohl: Teaching people all about Genesis. I know so many people that were in Genesis from this wonderful person here but joining us here for this video update is the infamous Carrie deals Carrie Carrie, welcome.

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Carrie Dils: Thank you. Thanks for having me. This one.

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah so glad to have you here for those curious, we will provide a be providing future updates on the shapers in video format. We’re going to be transcribing each of the videos.

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David Vogelpohl: For people that are, you know, obviously, unable to hear the audio from the video to make that as accessible as possible.

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David Vogelpohl: And then future videos will be released under the genesis community live cast, if you remember that from a few years back.

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David Vogelpohl: We will be revitalizing that and bringing that back. But for this month, we wanted to give you the video update so you can enjoy all the content dialogue.

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David Vogelpohl: And context really around what was discussed in the genesis shapers meeting so kicking us off in the meeting.

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David Vogelpohl: We had kind of a change of plans here for this month, we had a new moderator. Normally I would moderate the meeting. It happens in a Slack channel in Genesis slack called shapers and our guest moderator for the month was Brian Smith carry. Have you gotten to know Brian very well.

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Carrie Dils: No, unfortunately, I haven’t. I’ve just taken some zoom meetings with him.

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David Vogelpohl: He was hired on the essentially the studio press in Genesis team shortly after the acquisition of studio press by WP Engine

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David Vogelpohl: And Brian is distinctive and the fact that he is the first ever product professional to support the engineering efforts behind Genesis

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David Vogelpohl: Before the acquisition. It was pretty much just all Nathan rice when it came to Genesis

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David Vogelpohl: And so one of the things that we did right after the acquisition was really invest in all these surrounding the skill sets.

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David Vogelpohl: And product management was one of them. So Brian was the the first product manager ever in the history of Genesis, but he’s kind of stood in for me while I had some training to do for those that showed up one of the carry. What’s the first question we ask it. Every shapers meeting.

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Carrie Dils: Show of hands, who’s here.

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David Vogelpohl: Show of hands, who’s here. Yeah. So for those that were able to show up to this meeting. It looks like we have Matt Lawrence from the genesis engineering team Travis Smith shaper Genesis, Chris, Garrett.

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David Vogelpohl: Is old school studio press team member john Paris from atomic blocks. Know why representing Genesis and Spain love Hawaii is doing a ton of stuff out there john Brown from night seeds bill Ericsson

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David Vogelpohl: I think Bill is getting close to as infamous as you are, Gary.

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Carrie Dils: Oh no, he started out as infamous and

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Carrie Dils: I remember seeing his website before I even started working with Genesis and being like, Oh my gosh, I’m going to be that guy.

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Carrie Dils: So, yeah.

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David Vogelpohl: It’s funny because you are so many people I knows Genesis origin story with your courses and apparently bill is your origin story.

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David Vogelpohl: Yes, I like it. I like it. We have Robert and Robin cornet already mentioned, Travis Smith, Ryan.

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David Vogelpohl: Can strap. So the shapers meet with a combination of engineers and product managers from the genesis side so that way those folks can hear that feedback directly and participate in those conversations

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David Vogelpohl: Ryan joined the team from the block lab team and they are working on Genesis custom blocks which actually talk about here a little bit.

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David Vogelpohl: Matthew Cardenas a product manager Kerrie deals, of course, Ryan Murray from 3200 creative a Genesis agency and shaper been more from the engineering team myself.

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David Vogelpohl: Chris Garrett I mentioned him already. I love Christmas emoji when he says, Hello. Hello. It’s to beer mugs clinking

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David Vogelpohl: In this meeting takes place at like eight in the morning for him in mountain time us. So I don’t think he really had two beers, but he likes that emoji.

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David Vogelpohl: And then rim kiss to free us, of course, is right after him. And if you don’t know REM kiss. He’s from the Netherlands wonderful gentleman also Krista shaper he has the emoji. That’s like kind of looking like all confused at the top.

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David Vogelpohl: Carrie, do you know why we need it such an early time for the shapers yeah for us. People

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Carrie Dils: I believe that is to accommodate a global shaper lineup and so that it’s kind of hard to get both sides of the globe or at a single time. So yeah, we’re starting at 7am on the west coast and what is how does that translate over into Spain and Australia.

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, so that’s mid afternoon for the European folks. And then for Australia, depending on what part of Australia. It’s either like 10 at night or like 11 at night, maybe even midnight is the latest and so

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David Vogelpohl: I hate to disappoint on the flat earth. There’s out there. But the world really is around and it’s incredibly difficult to find a time

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David Vogelpohl: With a global group like this that you know truly works within everyone’s work day so we settled on that early morning spot. Thankfully, Lee.

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David Vogelpohl: And Schrader our Australian shapers we’re accommodating to that as we set that time. So not, of course, everybody’s able to show up to every meeting, looks like we have Gardner here as well. Some others.

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David Vogelpohl: But these were the group that showed up the first time. So the first question we had after a roll call and call to order call to order, if you will.

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David Vogelpohl: Was basically, what are your ideas to celebrate contributions of under, under represented groups in the genesis community and or generally address the challenges with diversity in the genesis community.

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David Vogelpohl: This was a question. Obviously, that was

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David Vogelpohl: Very important to me and very important to us in general just to understand, you know, how can we as a community. And of course, how can we use the shapers

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David Vogelpohl: Support people in our community who often feel alone or excluded and like are we even aware that that occurs and really just to start to think about like how we as a group can help make the genesis community even better than it’s been in the past.

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David Vogelpohl: I really like john brown suggestion here. Carrie. I think the obvious Avenue is to highlight folks on the studio press blog.

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David Vogelpohl: Really thinking about like thought leadership being an ache an anchor point or kind of a finger hold, if you will.

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David Vogelpohl: For helping to amplify voices within the community that are often heard

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David Vogelpohl: But, of course, also to show others that might be an underrepresented groups that yes, there are the people that represent your group or the part of your grip and that are also part of this community. What are your thoughts on that, in general, Carrie.

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Carrie Dils: I think it’s always great to introduce people

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Carrie Dils: Give them the limelight, so to speak, and let people meet just folks from the community. I know there’s a lot of activity on the Slack channel and

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Carrie Dils: In on Facebook, but sometimes it’s just like walls of names, but to actually kind of highlight a person and get their backstory and how they’re using WordPress in Genesis

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Carrie Dils: The question then becomes how do you like do you nominate or if you know somebody or if you are that somebody, and how would

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Carrie Dils: How would you go about getting getting a highlight

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, I think, relative to the studio press blog. I think the other thing that certainly remind folks is certainly look for these opportunities within your own publishing and thought leadership activities and events and things like that. You run

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David Vogelpohl: Jill binder. By the way, if you’re very involved with the WordPress community may be familiar with her. She has a great program and structure for approaching this

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David Vogelpohl: And I think, generally speaking, though. I think if you are interested in contributing your voice, particularly, you know, voices. We don’t often hear

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David Vogelpohl: I think as it relates to the studio press blog. Please DM me on twitter at WP David v.

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David Vogelpohl: Or DM me in Genesis slack and let me know what your ideas are. What kind of stories, you’d like to tell

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David Vogelpohl: Certainly we’re working with more diverse voices and thinking about that relative to the studio press blog. We are going to be increasing the number of guest posts we publish on the blog, really, to provide

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David Vogelpohl: More of a platform for the community at General to share what’s important to them to share their techniques.

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David Vogelpohl: To share what they’ve learned and what they want to teach others. And so we’re hopefully hoping that will provide an avenue for that. I think another area is really just to have these conversations. One of the things we’ll be doing

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David Vogelpohl: Around this vein is a very special episode of the live cast, which I mentioned a little later here.

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David Vogelpohl: But these are some of the errors. So if you are interested in sharing your voices particularly voices were here from very often.

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David Vogelpohl: Please see me on Twitter or DMV in Genesis slack. I think another area that was really interesting to me as part of this conversation with some of

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David Vogelpohl: Travis Smith’s points there actually is next points around thinking about how accessibility could play into representation

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David Vogelpohl: I know this is an area that Nick spends a lot of time on. And I know that people that don’t have to have accessibility issues.

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David Vogelpohl: Often will literally feel excluded from things and literally be excluded from things because those things are not presented in a way that allows them to consume that content.

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David Vogelpohl: Carrie. I’ve seen you post here and there around accessibility. It seems a bit like a passion point for you as well that how do

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David Vogelpohl: You think about that relative

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To this notion of diversity.

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Carrie Dils: Being Inclusive means being inclusive of all, including those with differing abilities or with

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Carrie Dils: Limitations around maybe, you know, audio or visual

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Carrie Dils: So yeah, I like including that you know when you talk about diversity, you can get diverse across a ton of points, you know, race, or geography or orientation, all the things

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Carrie Dils: In a sensibility is just another aspect of that making sure that nobody feels left behind.

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Carrie Dils: They’re able to come along.

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, I think I’ll say it for me feeling being open minded to what the notion of feeling unwelcome might mean because you might not as an individual, understand what being unwelcome feels like and certain contacts.

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David Vogelpohl: And it’s really interesting. I think it’s also, you know, WordPress itself as a community, perhaps, relative to the rest of tech has done.

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David Vogelpohl: You know, perhaps a better job than the rest of tech obviously still a lot of areas to go

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David Vogelpohl: Some of the areas we’ve made good progress and probably not great. An excellent but good progress is of inclusiveness around women and I know I’m really excited for 5.6 it’s the all women release lead release.

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Carrie Dils: Oh my gosh, it’s a rock star lineup.

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David Vogelpohl: Who’s your favorite. I have my favorites.

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Carrie Dils: No man.

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David Vogelpohl: I put you on the spot.

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David Vogelpohl: I got

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Carrie Dils: I was super excited to see a detail and Tonya work on that list among I know many of them, but those two names. I’m super excited to see

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David Vogelpohl: Really tiny I made it. I did not notice her name there.

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David Vogelpohl: My favorites were just stuff, of course, just a Hayden. For those unfamiliar with her and then someone from WP Engine was also in that release Sarah Riker, and she’s also one of the releases there, but I didn’t know, TANYA WAS MAKING she’s a course and old school Genesis person.

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Carrie Dils: Yeah, he’s the triage lead

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David Vogelpohl: She is. She’s incredible. I remember her and I had a conversation about that release.

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David Vogelpohl: When Josepha Joseph had reached out to a few people in the community to to, you know, see who were those women leaders that really you know fit the profile for this release.

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David Vogelpohl: And I was like, You gotta talk to Tony morgue. And at that time, Tanya wasn’t really available for that. But it sounds like it worked out. So that’s incredible. So yeah, those are my favorites for sure.

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David Vogelpohl: And then I think you know the other that came up in the conversation.

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David Vogelpohl: Was really the issues that face the black community and

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David Vogelpohl: I think it’s interesting to think about WordPress and Genesis in general because I feel like as I go to work camps engage with the genesis community in general, we really come in with this kumbaya attitude that everything’s okay and we love everybody and

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David Vogelpohl: We’re all friends, but the reality is that that’s not always true for everybody.

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David Vogelpohl: And, you know, as we discuss the issues.

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David Vogelpohl: Around the black community or with what the black community faces and WordPress and in Genesis, it really just wasn’t a lot of conversation around it and

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David Vogelpohl: It can create kind of this uncomfortable atmosphere, particularly for people. This particular conversation, who may be black and certainly in the broader conversation for people who might be, you know, people of color, if you will.

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David Vogelpohl: And, you know, even within the shapers and even within WordPress and even within Genesis coming in with this you know we love everybody we’re all good kumbaya approach, if you will, sometimes glosses over some of the challenges that people face in the community.

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David Vogelpohl: And, you know, we’re really blessed to have shapers that are very caring and certainly a community that’s very caring

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David Vogelpohl: But even within these communities. There’s sometimes fear fear to engage fear to discuss fear to ask questions and I think people are like, you know, not wanting to step on toes and

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David Vogelpohl: You know ruffle feathers. So they just don’t understand, but I think, you know, it was really over the course of this conversation which really went on for several days.

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David Vogelpohl: It was really inspiring to see really the shapers, you know, kind of go through this conversation and come together around this, this notion that

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David Vogelpohl: Particularly with the black community there’s under representation there injustices, even in WordPress, even in Genesis and

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David Vogelpohl: You know, we need to be open to what the notion of feeling unwelcome might means. And there are people in our community who feel unwelcome and alone.

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David Vogelpohl: And I personally take that personally and I know a lot of the shapers do as well. And I think you know it’s it’s it’s our obligation to be brave, it’s our obligation to have conversations like that and understand

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David Vogelpohl: What affects people in our community and through this lens. I’m really also honored. We’ve already announced this but I mentioned it here again that

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David Vogelpohl: shaper Nita Carter also Genesis communities member sandy Jackson and the co creator of WordPress Mike little will be joining us for a conversation around

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David Vogelpohl: The contributions from the black community to WordPress in Genesis, but also the challenges the black communities still faces today in this community. We all love

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David Vogelpohl: We all feel Kumbaya at these events, but really to help explore and understand what it’s like from the perspective of the black community and black individuals really thankful for a Nita

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David Vogelpohl: For helping to inspire. This also Katrina Martin and other Genesis community member her and I had a number of conversations on Twitter around this and then certainly Sandy and Mike for joining us there.

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David Vogelpohl: But these are certainly important issues. Carrie. I’m sure you’ve heard of Mike little and us know or knew that WordPress was co created by a member of the black community, but I feel like hardly anybody knows this information. I really feel like it’s rare.

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Carrie Dils: It is kind of unless you’re Oh gee, are just really kind of nerd out in the history of WordPress because Matt Millen wag has gone on to be such a

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Carrie Dils: Visible part of WordPress and its ongoing development today, whereas Mike little is gone off and done his own thing. And yeah, it’s just like what it wasn’t just mad that created WordPress know Mike little in there too. Yeah.

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Carrie Dils: I 30 hearing, hearing the story.

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, we had a little pre call today and I wish we would have just recorded in broadcasting because it was so gold.

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David Vogelpohl: Hearing the perspectives. I don’t mean to make light of course, I mean, these are very raw emotional topics for people that do experience negativity on a frequent basis.

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David Vogelpohl: But hearing those perspectives from Mike and Anita and Sandy today also Brian Kenny from WP engines represents er g, which is a people of color energy in general yr G stands for employee resource group really just kind of preparing for the live cast next this coming Tuesday.

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David Vogelpohl: And thinking about, you know, just really hearing their perspectives and learning a lot. I mean, obviously, these are things I can sympathize with but not empathize with

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David Vogelpohl: So I think getting that education understanding those points of view is super important. And I just get back to this point, particularly with the shapers

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David Vogelpohl: Is that there are people in our community that feel alone like stop that should be something we care about that should be something we learn about that should be something we act on. And so really glad the shapers

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David Vogelpohl: You know, kind of, over the course of that conversation over the course of this couple of days kind of coming together and getting behind that notion

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David Vogelpohl: It really proud to be part of that group and also really proud that we can have hard conversations because these conversations can be uncomfortable.

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David Vogelpohl: But it’s also important. I think that we do a good job at representing our role in the community and really fundamentally helping the community get better together.

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David Vogelpohl: Moving on to some of the more product focused

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David Vogelpohl: Questions from the shapers next step we have for that was Brian pose to the shapers you all are very nice to Brian is he was moderator. By the way, Carrie.

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Carrie Dils: Did a great job.

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David Vogelpohl: You didn’t pick on him. I should have told you all to pick on him. Just to give him a hard time

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Carrie Dils: I didn’t own the troll switch flipped out, I would have been there.

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David Vogelpohl: The child’s

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David Vogelpohl: Brain is too great guy love him. But moving on. So what elements of blocks.

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David Vogelpohl: Do you think should I’m sorry what elements of blocks do you think should inherit styles from themes versus be specific to the block itself. So I want to set the stage a little bit carried before we kind of comment on it and talk about

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David Vogelpohl: The other shaper said that for those watching, essentially, of course, you have your block and the WordPress blog editor. And then you have maybe your title paragraph and the blog image colors, you know,

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David Vogelpohl: Padding and so on so forth. And so, which the question was really to the shapers like when should the block have those styles and when should this block inherit the styles.

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David Vogelpohl: From the theme and variety of responses are good. Let’s see. Kevin readers inherit all applicable theme styles with the ability to override in the block. So help us understand what you meant by that comment.

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Carrie Dils: Sure, so

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Carrie Dils: anybody’s ever switch the theme and you have this thing of their

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Carrie Dils: You know, the majority of style elements are inherited, you know, your fonts and maybe your colors, but if you had some custom stuff in there. It looks all out of walk when you activate a new theme. So my thought was, if you’ve got blocks.

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Carrie Dils: They’re inheriting theme styles. So even if you change themes your constant your content still looks

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Carrie Dils: Like it fits

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Carrie Dils: After you after you would switch, but there may be cases where you want to override those themes styles. So being able to still have granular control over styles without having to use important in your style sheet.

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, it seemed like this was somewhat consistent point of view, you know, Bill Erickson says everyone has different needs, regarding block styles. It should look great on install for the majority of users. He won’t edit the styles.

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David Vogelpohl: But would be nice if there’s an easy way to minimize the styles, added he said he really loves how WP forms Jared Atkinson say no, I say him right he’s actually a Genesis community member, he made WP forms.

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David Vogelpohl: But they let us select three different style options for themes styling based styling and only or no styles.

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David Vogelpohl: It seemed like generally. This was around, you know, perhaps you can point it on this to carry this notion of control that I’m not. It seemed like the fear in general with like should styles should themes. When or should blocks when was really about at the end of the day, making Frank insights

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David Vogelpohl: On these designs all over the place.

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David Vogelpohl: And so it you know like john brown. It seemed like his, his statement here is everything should be inherited from the theme.

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David Vogelpohl: And john is a pure as he runs nine seats, which is also a theme shop so he’s like it should all be the theme and then other people sometimes maybe sometimes not. What are your thoughts on all that

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Carrie Dils: Oh, you know, I wish john Brown had opinions.

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Carrie Dils: He doesn’t feel comfortable sharing, sharing this true thoughts. That’s

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David Vogelpohl: Why, he’s

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David Vogelpohl: You know, he’s gonna cut right to

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It.

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Carrie Dils: You know, I think in the end, something that’s consistent

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Carrie Dils: is preferable because right now you know with with core blocks. Some of the selectors have changed. So you might have done a custom build for a client styled out a block and then core releases a new update and it breaks those things.

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Carrie Dils: So ultimately, whatever it is just some consistency under the hood. But yeah, is it most people know the people that are listening to this.

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Carrie Dils: You’re probably the the people that want to be able to control every aspect of the design or at least set it up. Set your client up for success. Once the client or the, you know, the ultimate owner of the website, they probably don’t care about any of it. They just want it to look good.

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Carrie Dils: So yeah, just doing that implementing blocks and themes in a way that

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Carrie Dils: It just looks good. As I’ve up for that.

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, absolutely. This way, this question was particularly interesting to the genesis product and engineering teams thinking about Genesis blocks which should be released on.org here in a week or so very close to fishing that live free for everyone for those curious about it.

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David Vogelpohl: And so, as they think about the blocks to include their

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David Vogelpohl: Obviously, this notion of what style should be there, which should I inherit, how should it look out of the box.

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David Vogelpohl: Is a big deal for them. And, you know, carry kind of pointed on the fact that, look, there’s, you know, a lot of different people that build a lot of different ways. And so, you know, optionality is so key. I love the way Robin Cranach put. Am I say your eyes a coordinate or connect

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Carrie Dils: Yeah, I think so. Robin, please.

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David Vogelpohl: Throw stuff at us in the next round.

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David Vogelpohl: Robin yeah through emoji at us. I love her Ivan’s input. It’s always so insightful, but she says here, one of the biggest challenges with the new block editor has been dealing with opinionated styles.

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David Vogelpohl: And how to override them in the theme. And so the way I interpreted that is basically as you add a block from wherever you got your block from the block include styles.

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David Vogelpohl: A lot of the time, and isn’t. Of course not. Inheriting some of them from the team.

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David Vogelpohl: And so it’s it’s it’s this opinion in the in that design and its layout and what’s in there and why it’s in there. And of course, the theme is an opinion as well. Opinion of the theme creator, do you think about this notion of like opinion nation, as you think about

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Carrie Dils: Things like

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David Vogelpohl: Blocks and themes

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Carrie Dils: Oh yeah, because I mean if anybody’s ever looked at CSS and seeing that, you know, the important. The reason you have to do that is because somebody has been overly opinionated.

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Carrie Dils: When they do their styles and what that means is, let’s say you’ve got a paragraph or just your basic HTML p tag that you want to style.

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Carrie Dils: And maybe sometimes you want to override that. Well, if you get something that’s super opinionated, it may have like

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Carrie Dils: Two or three levels of selectors above that p, which makes it really hard to target and an override

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David Vogelpohl: I know this is a I remember is the block editor was coming out hearing all kinds of things from the community, but one of them was

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David Vogelpohl: Don’t let those content creators miss at that beautiful sight I designed I made that perfect my clients are going to totally destroy that beautiful site.

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David Vogelpohl: And I think, you know, obviously, that’s one of the paradigms, the block editors introducing is that yeah those content creators those pesky clients can go in and change things.

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David Vogelpohl: I know this is why we added the within the genesis blocks pro plugin.

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David Vogelpohl: We added the option to restrict which blocks and which parts of the blocks can be edited by the end user.

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David Vogelpohl: You know, is this way or of providing that control back to the site creator. I remember from my agency days the carrying my clients would never log into the back end of their websites.

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David Vogelpohl: And if they did, it was usually an upgrade because they messed something up they’d be like, Hey, David we messed it up. Can you fix it.

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David Vogelpohl: You say,

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Carrie Dils: It was pretty rare. I would usually do give them a login. That was a stripped down admin so that they only saw maybe pages or post or the things that they needed to be concerned with

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Carrie Dils: And then I create a separate

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Carrie Dils: Full admin privileges login and just give that to them and tell them this is only in case of emergency and, you know, get me there, you can log in and access everything you need in your dashboard, but no clients, most of time, they just call and ask me to do it anyway.

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David Vogelpohl: That I say do you actually designed to build with blocks or are you are you literally using the block to make pages and posts.

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Carrie Dils: I am converting a site right now.

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Carrie Dils: Into a fully block based site and its interest. I’m actually excited. I know we haven’t talked about full side editing yet but

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Carrie Dils: As I was laying out the page was like oh my gosh, it would be so helpful if, for instance, the footer.

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Carrie Dils: If I could make the footer out of blocks. And of course, that’ll be something you can do eventually with full site editing. But yeah, I found the ability to

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Carrie Dils: I mean the block editors it perfect, but it’s improved you know 100 fold over its initial release in terms of ease of working with it and it’s it’s pretty cool.

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David Vogelpohl: All right. Good deal. Everybody likes an easy button right Kari.

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David Vogelpohl: Alright, on to the next question. In the shapers meeting from Brian here. Do we think it would be helpful if we added features within Genesis blocks.

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David Vogelpohl: And for those listening. This is the free plugin. We will release here in the next week or so.

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David Vogelpohl: To make it easier for theme creators to define and enforced styles within blocks. So this notion of like should Genesis blocks provide the ability for the providers to kind of define and enforce this styles within the blocks.

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David Vogelpohl: Looks like john Brown says, I think it would be helpful if there was a standardized guide to block markup and block classes that the providers could rely on to him. He says it’s less about enforcing and more about predictability.

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David Vogelpohl: Carrie. I’m not sure if you have any thoughts on that there was six 100 emojis on that thing. Yes, six 100 images on John’s comments. So this was a very popular popular way of thinking here from john. How do you think of this scary.

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Carrie Dils: Yeah, and I think that frustration. I know that question was specifically about Genesis blocks. But I think the frustration.

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Carrie Dils: Comes from WordPress core blocks and that it has been sort of a moving target. And I touched on that earlier. So yeah, it’s less about how its implemented and more about the consistent implementation. So a theme developers do want to

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Carrie Dils: You know, go in with their styles, they can they can do that.

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Carrie Dils: In a consistent and predictable way.

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Carrie Dils: Versus having to constantly updates to their child theme to it.

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, this is really interesting for the genesis or end, you know, product and engineering teams thinking about, you know, the role of Genesis themes in general with full site editing and WordPress core, which we’ve talked quite a bit about

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David Vogelpohl: And you know, we have, of course,

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David Vogelpohl: You know, perhaps opportunities to address some of these, at least within the genesis contacts. But of course,

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David Vogelpohl: One of the strengths and weaknesses of open platforms is there’s all kinds of stuff out there, but obviously having some of that comes from core would be helpful. Know why from Spain there.

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David Vogelpohl: He says, yes, that would be a key feature for thing creators, he was he was in support of that rim kiss to free us

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David Vogelpohl: He agrees 100% accuracy of your comment here matches your comment. You just gave Gary

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Carrie Dils: Oh,

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David Vogelpohl: Let’s see nice for

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David Vogelpohl: For Deb’s handing off sites to clients to be able to enforce styles to some degree. Okay, that’s pretty consistent. So

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Carrie Dils: So one distinction there there’s people that are building themes to be sold or to be used across multiple sites. And then there’s bespoke themes

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Carrie Dils: And when you’re talking about enforcing styles, you may want to approach that differently. You know, like if you’re handing off to a client, you want to put some guard rails up around what they can and can’t change. But if it’s a theme that’s being released for, you know, general use.

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Carrie Dils: People to be able to customize it however they want

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, for sure. That’s a good distinction. We also have this comment from Sally, you may be familiar with her as WP fangirl

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David Vogelpohl: She’s kind of replying back to john here. And she says, I think that’s more a core issue that’s exactly what you said. Kerry.

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David Vogelpohl: Than a Genesis issue. And there’s definitely a lag and updating the handbook. I guess through that notion of documentation and what to expect and then john kind of goes on here. But one of the things he says here is

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David Vogelpohl: Now it’s my battle cry for the genesis basically saying, you know, I’ve wanted this inquiry for a long time. But then he says, and now it’s my battle cry for the genesis ecosystem.

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David Vogelpohl: Carry you have this this picture of a guy i can i can remember what this is called What is this picture when it gets to know they got the story and I forget.

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Carrie Dils: I think it’s from from the patriot.

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David Vogelpohl: Patriot it’s the

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Carrie Dils: Mel Gibson’s always holding up something

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David Vogelpohl: Is he is, he’s got the paint on his face. It’s the one based in Old England, I can’t remember the name of it saved my life. But yes, you’re like,

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, then Sally kind of points out, you know, obviously, the, the core editor team isn’t you know, avoiding documentation. I think also the thing to recognize is that, you know, this is an evolving set of technologies. I mean, false identity hasn’t even been

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David Vogelpohl: You know fully released yet. And so, but I do think there are opportunities, of course, relative to the genesis ecosystem. Certainly the genesis suite of products to provide paths for people that helped to address things like

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David Vogelpohl: You know, when should a theme be in control of the style, when should the block and how should those two things kind of pass back and forth.

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David Vogelpohl: Ryan’s next question to the shapers was what integrations, would you like to see between Genesis blocks and Genesis custom blocks and there’s an example here.

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David Vogelpohl: By sake of example, creating a custom layout with custom blocks and then have the layout appear in the genesis blocks menu.

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David Vogelpohl: So to set the context here a little bit before we jump in.

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David Vogelpohl: I mentioned Genesis blocks is a plugin that we will be releasing on wordpress.org and the next couple of weeks.

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David Vogelpohl: We will also be releasing a plugin called Genesis custom blocks. And again, you can get hey guess what it does. It lets you create custom blocks without having to know react Carrie, did you learn JavaScript deeply aftermaths battle cry at work camp Philly.

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Carrie Dils: So,

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Carrie Dils: I did not. But I was reading

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Carrie Dils: A WP tavern article by Francesca Marino who she’s I love and love her and she talked about despising JavaScript deeply

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Carrie Dils: And I

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Carrie Dils: I kind of, I kind of related to that.

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David Vogelpohl: Well yeah, I think you should still probably think about learning JavaScript. But if you’re not ready for that yet.

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David Vogelpohl: Justice custom blocks is going to help you build it, your standard

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David Vogelpohl: WordPress, you know, kind of builder developer skill set, if you will.

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David Vogelpohl: You can leverage actually with Genesis custom block so you don’t have to have, you know, react skills right now does build your own custom awesome blocks.

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David Vogelpohl: The shapers have been able to test some of these things and advanced course we have open beta is for anyone to test, but sometimes we’ll share things in advance with the shapers is really fine tuning how we might have read something

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David Vogelpohl: And so some of them were able to test it and some of them were

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David Vogelpohl: Know why says the example. Sounds great. On the other hand, it would be nice to be able to add the custom blocks to one click theme setup so you can use them for your theme demos.

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David Vogelpohl: With the reply was him to have to actually go read this.

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David Vogelpohl: Ryan on the engineering teams like I interesting

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David Vogelpohl: answer there is, yes, absolutely you can do those things. For those unfamiliar one click teams setup was released about two years ago was actually right after the acquisition

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David Vogelpohl: One of the big pieces of feedback WP Engine got was setting up themes is so hard, it takes forever. And I’m going to read all these documents.

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David Vogelpohl: And so we basically built a wizard system into Genesis sell for third party game developers and of course also studio press to be able to within seconds load in plugins and demo contents. We can look like the demo. When you use it.

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David Vogelpohl: Carrie. I know it’s been a long time since you probably like started with the theme. But what was it you recall what that experience was like when you install the theme and your site look nothing like your demo, like the demo side of that thing.

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Carrie Dils: Actually, I’m one of my courses. I had a slide that said what you expect it to look like when you activate a theme, and it was, you know, the demo with beautiful

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Carrie Dils: What it actually looks like when you activated theme. And it’s just like a header and a sidebar with some dummy widgets or placeholder widgets in there.

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Carrie Dils: Yeah, and after working with them for a long time and familiarity with Genesis. It didn’t take me that long to set up, but very much of frustration.

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David Vogelpohl: Be 30 seconds. Carrie, can you

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Carrie Dils: 30. So, no, no. I could not be 30 seconds. I’m

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Carrie Dils: Now that now that one click onboarding is there i’m i’m using it. I’m loving it.

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah. Did you have to update that blog post scary or whatever that piece of content was you’re talking about

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Carrie Dils: Oh,

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David Vogelpohl: I’ve got a date on it so

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David Vogelpohl: I like that. I like that.

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David Vogelpohl: Look like Nathan Rice said consistency across the product family seems to be a theme is is that has occurred since we launched Genesis framework, a decade ago. So for those unfamiliar Nathan rice.

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David Vogelpohl: He’s actually in engineering management now. So that’s been, you know, part of his progression in his career.

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David Vogelpohl: You know, after studio press kind of joined WP Engine, but you probably know him, is the essentially only and lead developer of Genesis, for many years.

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David Vogelpohl: And so he’s kind of, in my view, putting kind of like a head nod to, like, Well, this isn’t new for us. We’ve always had this notion of

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David Vogelpohl: You know, kind of integration and in a sense, playing nice among all the different things in the genesis universe. And so thinking about that through the lens of, like, I’m going to make a custom block with Genesis custom block. So then how might that expresses itself.

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David Vogelpohl: Throughout you know the other products in the genesis universe Brian Smith agreed with him and then Nathan rice responded with a want to call it, Tony Stark I’m blanking on everybody’s name today.

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Carrie Dils: Tony Stark in that

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, Tony Stark. Yes. Yeah.

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David Vogelpohl: I like it.

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David Vogelpohl: What are your thoughts on all this Carrie. I mean, I guess it kind of makes sense, right, I’m gonna make a custom block and then if I’m going to use it, have one click team set up or have like other ways I might be engaging with blocks and the genesis contacts like

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David Vogelpohl: I should just be able to see that there, right.

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Carrie Dils: Exactly, especially if you’re create like nine seeds or one of the theme shops to be able to create a custom block and have it automatically sucked into Genesis blocks. Then when someone’s doing a one click being set up.

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Carrie Dils: Those blocks are just there and ready to use. I think that makes a lot of sense.

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, the you know the question also talked about layouts and it didn’t say blocks. So for those unfamiliar now Genesis blocks has not been released. So you’re probably very unfamiliar.

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David Vogelpohl: But within Genesis blocks are pre designed and optimize blocks also what it called sections are parts of the page, which is a collection of blocks, if you will.

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David Vogelpohl: And then layouts, which are an entire page and then something called collections, which are essentially like a whole websites where the demo content.

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David Vogelpohl: Consistently design demo content, much like you might experience in one click theme setup today.

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David Vogelpohl: And so I think this notion of, like, well, I need to create some blocks for that thing and I might have my own you know collection, if you will, for my agency or whatever my starting point is as a freelancer

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David Vogelpohl: Or I might be a third party team provider like john and want to make my own for my, my child themes

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David Vogelpohl: Or any anywhere in between. But it is pretty obvious question, but as the product and engineering team. Think about it. It’s like

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David Vogelpohl: Okay, well, we want to solve these individual jobs and these kind of individual ways. But how do we provide that in a way that provides a cohesive experience. So it’s really good for that team, the RD folks to to listen to that and see that participate in that discussion.

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David Vogelpohl: Next question from Brian Well, would you like the blocks in Genesis blocks to mean, would you like the blocks and Genesis blocks to be made available as individual blocks like in the WordPress 5.5 directory. It was possible, or do you prefer the consistency of like a collection of blocks.

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David Vogelpohl: Carry. You say, I know we’re at WP fangirl Sally would say, and then you wiki face it. Why do you winky face. What is she gonna say you don’t

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Carrie Dils: Know what actually responses come in here.

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Carrie Dils: I know she’s said in previous shaper meetings. I know that her preferences individual blocks and the block library.

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Carrie Dils: And john brown kind of echoes that thought and ideas if you’ve with a collection of blocks. Maybe there’s, I don’t know, a dozen two dozen blocks. Maybe you’re only using two. But do you want the overhead of styles loading for those unused blogs or

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Carrie Dils: Whatnot

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Carrie Dils: And so if you’re, if you’ve got the individual blocks, then you’re kind of module or any more copy to say this word modular rising

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Carrie Dils: Versus just having a bunch

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David Vogelpohl: But it all in there.

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Carrie Dils: Yeah, and it seemed to be, you know, several, several folks commented Robin was a fan of the individual blog Nick crops that he’s a big fan of foundry.

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Carrie Dils: I wasn’t familiar with that that

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah, it seemed like individual blocks one. It feels like that notion. I mean, just looking at comments from LIKE JOHN. JOHN salley and why Robin, Nick.

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David Vogelpohl: I guess he has the foundry suggestion there. I think the downside, I think, and I don’t know if it’s even that material a downside is that if you’re using all these different kinds of blocks made by different kinds of people.

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David Vogelpohl: And with different approaches that you can end up having some inconsistency on your site.

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David Vogelpohl: Or inconsistency and how you manage your site.

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David Vogelpohl: But you know, I think this is also early on. I don’t think anybody knows

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David Vogelpohl: I do know, people don’t like cramming their site with stuff. They know us

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David Vogelpohl: Which is certainly one of the reasons we kind of mentioned this a couple of times were kind of offloading the blocks you know us. But still, you know, having access to them through

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David Vogelpohl: Some sort of cloud offering is something we’ve been working on. So that way you could, you know, have access to your custom things kind of pull it into WordPress right away.

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David Vogelpohl: But it seemed like the overwhelming majority was saying like, you know, prefer not to, you know, have a collection, but really kind of choose pick and choose which ones. I’m going to end up using

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Carrie Dils: And the other

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Carrie Dils: side of that is when you install an individual block from the nobody’s played with the block directory yet. I think it’s wordpress.org slash search block singular

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Carrie Dils: But when you install it installs as a plugin so you know how to plug in management. I mean, I don’t want to go to a plugin screen and see 100 plugins. It’d be nice if they were nested somehow under, under a parent container. That’s a different conversation but

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Carrie Dils: It crowd in mind.

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David Vogelpohl: All right. Well, certainly very insightful for us to be able to kind of get some of the insights there now folks are thinking about it.

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David Vogelpohl: Next question from Brian. Have you heard about block patterns coming to WordPress in how would you want expect block patterns to integrate with Genesis

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David Vogelpohl: Crops as he loves block patterns carry. I’ve got a little known fact V block patterns were partially inspired by a topic blocks.

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David Vogelpohl: The work that Mike McAllister, and john Paris had done there was part of the conversation courses where the strengths of open source.

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David Vogelpohl: And it essentially inspired this notion of blog patterns. And it’s funny because we will be shifting essentially Genesis blocks to leverage the block pattern, you know,

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David Vogelpohl: Approach, if you will. Within Genesis blocks so it we’re we’re kind of refactoring the thing to work with the thing that the thing inspired. So this is like full inception and backwards, right.

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Carrie Dils: Below it

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David Vogelpohl: What are what are your thoughts on block patterns, but with from what you’ve seen so far the

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Carrie Dils: Other amazing. I’ve already been using. So we’re pressed 5.5 introduced block patterns and then in case anybody’s listening and didn’t know what patterns. You’re just a collection of a group of several blocks.

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Carrie Dils: So for instance, one of the core WordPress. One is just two side by side buttons.

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Carrie Dils: It, which sounds crazy, but I don’t know if you’ve ever tried button alignment and side. But anyways, it’s really nice just to go. Boop. Put that pattern in my page, please. And it inherits theme styles, but we talked about that.

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Carrie Dils: Yes, yes, yes. So yeah, block patterns are fantastic and really kind of one of the building blocks, if you will, on the way to full site editing.

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Carrie Dils: See what I did there.

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Carrie Dils: Yes, yes, blocks.

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David Vogelpohl: Like, you know, when we were coming up with the name for Genesis blocks. They said, is a future proof name. I said, Unless they introduced triangles, we should be okay.

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David Vogelpohl: Okay, until they do try and go so you trials next year have to rename all the things

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David Vogelpohl: Robin to this question. She says they are one of the easier things to implement with the editor actual actually

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David Vogelpohl: And then she says, except for encoding the blog content which says that’s doable.

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David Vogelpohl: So Robin. It’s definitely not like Neo from the Matrix when it comes to development as an individual. I mean, obviously she’s advanced relative all wide world.

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David Vogelpohl: But it’s really interesting to hear her perspective, sometimes versus SAY, SOMEONE LIKE JOHN Brown, who will just get into the guts of the matrix to tell you all about the different things and

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David Vogelpohl: What his opinion of but it looked like Robin here thinking that was, you know, at least one of the easier parts of the editor Sally WP fangirl I have heard about them and I’m thrilled.

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David Vogelpohl: Because I basically been creating reusable blocks to fill the function of block patterns, I would expect the various layouts being offered by Genesis to use block patterns. Once those are better established. So I think she was using reusable blocks and half of that.

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David Vogelpohl: John Brown says yes block patterns as groups of Genesis blocks plus core blocks in great

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David Vogelpohl: So it seemed like I would say the general consensus here was gay bar patterns.

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Carrie Dils: What do you think, yes, yes.

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David Vogelpohl: Speaking of patterns. Carrie, we’re wearing the same shirt today and we did not plan this at all.

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Carrie Dils: We didn’t actually

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David Vogelpohl: And you didn’t wear your Do you own an old school version of the genesis WP t shirt.

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Carrie Dils: I do and

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Carrie Dils: I had

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Carrie Dils: It’s currently on a quilt on my bed.

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David Vogelpohl: Somebody made it

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Carrie Dils: You did or said Andrea renick I shipped all my WordPress.

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Carrie Dils: T shirts to Canada, and she made me this this great quilt. And that’s my OD Genesis shirt is part of the

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David Vogelpohl: Part of them. I like it.

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David Vogelpohl: They can you explain to everyone listening, like what the distinction is between the old school version and the one that you and I are aware

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Carrie Dils: Yeah, the old school is all lowercase.

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David Vogelpohl: And a different fine. Yep. And so when this shirt was very popular back in the day and so

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David Vogelpohl: Not too long after the acquisition. I was like, We gotta make one of those shirts, and again, I’ve been in his community prior to even joining WP Engine wrenches agency for five years.

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David Vogelpohl: This is really excited to bring this shirt back and the designers come and they’re like, check it out. We got it’s ready to go. It’s at the printers. I was like, it’s their own capitalization. We gotta

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David Vogelpohl: Take the lowercase when they’re like, but it doesn’t look as good. I’m like, Yeah, but that’s the the older version. We got to get that

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David Vogelpohl: So you’re trying to bring that one back. I do like this one. It’s very short. I gotta say I do like the kind of boldness of the all caps.

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David Vogelpohl: But this as I go to work camps and I wear this shirt. I love it when these people that have been the community come a long time and have those old shirts that come up to me and they’re like, you’re just not as cool as me. I had the original Genesis your new

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Carrie Dils: Kid.

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David Vogelpohl: I know this is what I got this. I just didn’t get a shirt. I’m not that new I started using just around 2012

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David Vogelpohl: That new

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David Vogelpohl: Anyways, so that was the end of the questions air really just want to do another shout out to Brian Smith, our guest moderator for

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David Vogelpohl: That meeting the August 2020 meeting of the genesis shapers did a really great job there. I might have to get him to do that more often. So I can sit back and just like hammer comments like everybody else.

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David Vogelpohl: When those meetings are taking place. Carrie, thank you so much for joining us here today.

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Carrie Dils: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

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David Vogelpohl: If you’d like to check out where our carries empty, you can check out Carrie deals calm di LL s.com I was going to give a shout out for you, Carrie, whether you whether you knew it or not.

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David Vogelpohl: Yeah. Carrie has helped so many people learn Genesis and you can also check out her courses on LinkedIn.

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David Vogelpohl: Thanks everyone for joining us here today, hear about the genesis shapers meeting for August 2020 again.

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David Vogelpohl: I’m David Vogelpohl. I’ve been a proud member of the genesis community for over eight years. I lead the lead Genesis WP Engine and I love helping the genesis community a better together with my friends at the shapers. Thank you.